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ATI/AMD HD SM4.0 Features

OpenGL
Started by TimothyFarrar Oct 28, 2007 at 9:42 PM 12 replies 5.8k views
Original Post
TimothyFarrar
TimothyFarrar
Anyone know what SM4.0 features are supported and working on the ATI/AMD HD 2xxx series cards? A glxinfo printout (or something similar) of the supported opengl extensions would be an excellent answer! (example below). Sorry, would seem like something that would be easy to google, but just couldn't get good enough info. One specific thing I am wondering about is if the newest ATI/AMD cards support the transform feedback extension or something similar. Example of glxinfo from a GeForce 8600, OpenGL vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation OpenGL renderer string: GeForce 8600 GTS/PCI/SSE2 OpenGL version string: 2.1.1 NVIDIA 100.14.03 OpenGL extensions: GL_ARB_color_buffer_float, GL_ARB_depth_texture, GL_ARB_draw_buffers, GL_ARB_fragment_program, GL_ARB_fragment_program_shadow, GL_ARB_fragment_shader, GL_ARB_half_float_pixel, GL_ARB_imaging, GL_ARB_multisample, GL_ARB_multitexture, GL_ARB_occlusion_query, GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object, GL_ARB_point_parameters, GL_ARB_point_sprite, GL_ARB_shadow, GL_ARB_shader_objects, GL_ARB_shading_language_100, GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp, GL_ARB_texture_compression, GL_ARB_texture_cube_map, GL_ARB_texture_env_add, GL_ARB_texture_env_combine, GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3, GL_ARB_texture_float, GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat, GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two, GL_ARB_texture_rectangle, GL_ARB_transpose_matrix, GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object, GL_ARB_vertex_program, GL_ARB_vertex_shader, GL_ARB_window_pos, GL_ATI_draw_buffers, GL_ATI_texture_float, GL_ATI_texture_mirror_once, GL_S3_s3tc, GL_EXT_texture_env_add, GL_EXT_abgr, GL_EXT_bgra, GL_EXT_blend_color, GL_EXT_blend_equation_separate, GL_EXT_blend_func_separate, GL_EXT_blend_minmax, GL_EXT_blend_subtract, GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array, GL_EXT_Cg_shader, GL_EXT_bindable_uniform, GL_EXT_depth_bounds_test, GL_EXT_draw_buffers2, GL_EXT_draw_instanced, GL_EXT_draw_range_elements, GL_EXT_fog_coord, GL_EXT_framebuffer_blit, GL_EXT_framebuffer_multisample, GL_EXT_framebuffer_object, GL_EXTX_framebuffer_mixed_formats, GL_EXT_framebuffer_sRGB, GL_EXT_geometry_shader4, GL_EXT_gpu_program_parameters, GL_EXT_gpu_shader4, GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays, GL_EXT_packed_depth_stencil, GL_EXT_packed_float, GL_EXT_packed_pixels, GL_EXT_pixel_buffer_object, GL_EXT_point_parameters, GL_EXT_rescale_normal, GL_EXT_secondary_color, GL_EXT_separate_specular_color, GL_EXT_shadow_funcs, GL_EXT_stencil_two_side, GL_EXT_stencil_wrap, GL_EXT_texture3D, GL_EXT_texture_array, GL_EXT_texture_buffer_object, GL_EXT_texture_compression_latc, GL_EXT_texture_compression_rgtc, GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc, GL_EXT_texture_cube_map, GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp, GL_EXT_texture_env_combine, GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3, GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic, GL_EXT_texture_integer, GL_EXT_texture_lod, GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias, GL_EXT_texture_mirror_clamp, GL_EXT_texture_object, GL_EXT_texture_sRGB, GL_EXT_texture_shared_exponent, GL_EXT_timer_query, GL_EXT_vertex_array, GL_IBM_rasterpos_clip, GL_IBM_texture_mirrored_repeat, GL_KTX_buffer_region, GL_NV_blend_square, GL_NV_copy_depth_to_color, GL_NV_depth_buffer_float, GL_NV_depth_clamp, GL_NV_fence, GL_NV_float_buffer, GL_NV_fog_distance, GL_NV_fragment_program, GL_NV_fragment_program_option, GL_NV_fragment_program2, GL_NV_framebuffer_multisample_coverage, GL_NV_geometry_shader4, GL_NV_gpu_program4, GL_NV_half_float, GL_NV_light_max_exponent, GL_NV_multisample_filter_hint, GL_NV_occlusion_query, GL_NV_packed_depth_stencil, GL_NV_parameter_buffer_object, GL_NV_pixel_data_range, GL_NV_point_sprite, GL_NV_primitive_restart, GL_NV_register_combiners, GL_NV_register_combiners2, GL_NV_texgen_reflection, GL_NV_texture_compression_vtc, GL_NV_texture_env_combine4, GL_NV_texture_expand_normal, GL_NV_texture_rectangle, GL_NV_texture_shader, GL_NV_texture_shader2, GL_NV_texture_shader3, GL_NV_transform_feedback, GL_NV_vertex_array_range, GL_NV_vertex_array_range2, GL_NV_vertex_program, GL_NV_vertex_program1_1, GL_NV_vertex_program2, GL_NV_vertex_program2_option, GL_NV_vertex_program3, GL_NVX_conditional_render, GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap, GL_SGIS_texture_lod, GL_SGIX_depth_texture, GL_SGIX_shadow, GL_SUN_slice_accum
AndyPandyV2
AndyPandyV2
I'd be surprised if ATI supports any SM4 in OG.
Vilem Otte
Vilem Otte
These are AMD/ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT extensions with Catalyst 7.10 drivers (I've got Radeon HD 2900 XT). Maybe i've got old glext header file (it's probably possible - version 39). Ati/Amd has got very bad drivers. Amd says, that when OpenGL 3.0 come, they'll release OpenGL 3 drivers for Ati Radeon HD 2xxx series. Looking forward to Longs Peak.

ATI Technologies Inc.
ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT
2.0.6956 Release
GL_ARB_depth_texture GL_ARB_draw_buffers GL_ARB_fragment_program GL_ARB_fragment_shader GL_ARB_multisample GL_ARB_multitexture GL_ARB_occlusion_query GL_ARB_point_parameters GL_ARB_point_sprite GL_ARB_shader_objects GL_ARB_shading_language_100 GL_ARB_shadow GL_ARB_shadow_ambient GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp GL_ARB_texture_compression GL_ARB_texture_cube_map GL_ARB_texture_env_add GL_ARB_texture_env_combine GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3 GL_ARB_texture_float GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two GL_ARB_texture_rectangle GL_ARB_transpose_matrix GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object GL_ARB_vertex_program GL_ARB_vertex_shader GL_ARB_window_pos GL_ATI_draw_buffers GL_ATI_envmap_bumpmap GL_ATI_fragment_shader GL_ATI_meminfo GL_ATI_separate_stencil GL_ATI_texture_compression_3dc GL_ATI_texture_env_combine3 GL_ATI_texture_float GL_EXT_bgra GL_EXT_blend_color GL_EXT_blend_func_separate GL_EXT_blend_minmax GL_EXT_blend_subtract GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array GL_EXT_copy_texture GL_EXT_draw_range_elements GL_EXT_fog_coord GL_EXT_framebuffer_object GL_EXT_gpu_program_parameters GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays GL_EXT_packed_depth_stencil GL_EXT_packed_pixels GL_EXT_point_parameters GL_EXT_rescale_normal GL_EXT_secondary_color GL_EXT_separate_specular_color GL_EXT_shadow_funcs GL_EXT_stencil_wrap GL_EXT_subtexture GL_EXT_texgen_reflection GL_EXT_texture3D GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc GL_EXT_texture_cube_map GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp GL_EXT_texture_env_add GL_EXT_texture_env_combine GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3 GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias GL_EXT_texture_mirror_clamp GL_EXT_texture_object GL_EXT_texture_rectangle GL_EXT_vertex_array GL_KTX_buffer_region GL_NV_blend_square GL_NV_texgen_reflection GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp GL_SGIS_texture_lod GL_WIN_swap_hint WGL_EXT_swap_control
TimothyFarrar
TimothyFarrar
Quote:
Original post by Vilem Otte
These are AMD/ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT extensions with Catalyst 7.10 drivers (I've got Radeon HD 2900 XT). Maybe i've got old glext header file (it's probably possible - version 39). Ati/Amd has got very bad drivers. Amd says, that when OpenGL 3.0 come, they'll release OpenGL 3 drivers for Ati Radeon HD 2xxx series. Looking forward to Longs Peak.
...


Thanks for the info.

Wow! If this is correct, they have ABSOLUTELY NO OpenGl Shader Model 4.0 support in their current driver!

AndyTX
AndyTX
Quote:
Original post by TimothyFarrar
Wow! If this is correct, they have ABSOLUTELY NO OpenGl Shader Model 4.0 support in their current driver!

It's worse than that - they don't even expose features that R600 trivially has that don't even require and extension. For example, you may not that the VERTEX_TEXTURE_IMAGE_UNITS is still zero , even though R600 is fully capable of vertex texture fetch.

As far as OpenGL is concerned, R600 has the same features as R580. Quite disappointing, but ATI/AMD seem determined to ditch OpenGL until the next Doom/whatever high-profile game comes along that needs it. At that time, they'll add just the features that the game needs.

I really tend to like ATI/AMD, but their OpenGL driver situation is pathetic and has been for quite some time.
Yann L
Yann L
Quote:
Original post by AndyTX
As far as OpenGL is concerned, R600 has the same features as R580. Quite disappointing, but ATI/AMD seem determined to ditch OpenGL until the next Doom/whatever high-profile game comes along that needs it.

GL2 is going to be legacy in not too long. They're probably concentrating on the GL3 implementation. Since the new API forces them to rewrite large portions of the driver, I really hope they take the opportunity to do it right this time.
AndyTX
AndyTX
Quote:
Original post by Yann L
GL2 is going to be legacy in not too long. They're probably concentrating on the GL3 implementation. Since the new API forces them to rewrite large portions of the driver, I really hope they take the opportunity to do it right this time.

I certainly hope so too, as it's great to have some API options. Still, even after having read through the specs for GL3.0, I just can't get too excited compared to D3D10 (it's seems clear that GL is now the one playing "catch-up"). Ironically, ATI pulling out a working OpenGL driver may be more interesting than the API update itself ;)
TimothyFarrar
TimothyFarrar
Quote:
Original post by AndyTX
I certainly hope so too, as it's great to have some API options. Still, even after having read through the specs for GL3.0, I just can't get too excited compared to D3D10 (it's seems clear that GL is now the one playing "catch-up"). Ironically, ATI pulling out a working OpenGL driver may be more interesting than the API update itself ;)


As for the D3D10 vs GL2, at least with the NVidia cards, it seems to me as if all the new D3D10/SM4.0 functionality is exposed in GL2 via extensions (which are very easy to use and work perfectly in the framework of GL2, BTW). And for those wanting to use D3D10/SM4.0 features in Windows XP, GL2 is the way to go as NVidia's drivers have GL2 SM4.0 across the board (Linux and Windows XP/Vista).

Even Apple, now that the 8600M cards are in the MacBook Pros, is starting to support SM4.0 features (transform feedback and geometry shaders I think are in the newest update according to stuff said on apple's mac-opengl mailing list). Now if they would just support texture buffer objects, and SM4.0 would become really useful on MacOSX.

I think Apple is probably mainly waiting on the GL2 SM4.0 common standards to be formalized since they are supporting GL_EXT_transform_feedback (which hasn't been standardized yet) instead of NV_transform_feedback.

Would be quite funny if Apple ended up with better GL drivers for the R600/HD2xxx cards than those put out by ATI/AMD for Windows!

It is really too bad AMD/ATI is sandbagging like this, I'd bet that the lack of them working on GL2 SM4.0 driver support is a major holdup for the standards process (of course I could be 100% wrong here too :)

As for GL3, I'm going to take a stab that GL3 is a long way off (>1 year, >2 years?) to the point where there is enough vendor support to make it practical for us GL people. Sure NVidia will probably be there right away, but Apple and ATI/AMD will probably take some time.

AndyTX
AndyTX
Quote:
Original post by TimothyFarrar
As for the D3D10 vs GL2, at least with the NVidia cards, it seems to me as if all the new D3D10/SM4.0 functionality is exposed in GL2 via extensions (which are very easy to use and work perfectly in the framework of GL2, BTW). And for those wanting to use D3D10/SM4.0 features in Windows XP, GL2 is the way to go as NVidia's drivers have GL2 SM4.0 across the board (Linux and Windows XP/Vista).

Certainly many of the features are exposed in the new extensions, and if you're on XP you really have no choice :) Still, it's a bit of a myth that GL+extensions == D3D10. For instance:

1) GL cannot rendering without a vertex buffer which is important for scatter operations, and useful for full-screen quads, etc.

2) GL does not support disjoint samplers/textures, which are just useful period.

3) You still can't render to 1/2-component FBOs in GL! (Try it: last I checked trying to use LUMINANCE or LUMINANCE_ALPHA as a target for FBO rendering resulted in FRAMEBUFFER_INCOMPLETE regardless of the target texture format. I'm still baffled that this doesn't work though, so I really want someone to post a snippet and prove me wrong!)

4) NVIDIA's drivers currently have some major issues with some of the new features, one example being indexed temporaries in GLSL.

5) GL doesn't have the resource/views model of D3D10 which can result in some unnecessary data copying to convert types, etc.

There are a few more, but the above have accounted for some pretty major problems when trying to do more advanced (GP)GPU implementations. So while the G80 extensions are great and open up a lot of functionality, they don't actually bring GL into parody with D3D10. However since you have to use GL to get *any* of the new features on XP/Mac/Linux, there's still a place for it I think... as long as ATI updates their drivers soon!
TimothyFarrar
TimothyFarrar
Andy, thanks for the info!

Quote:
3) You still can't render to 1/2-component FBOs in GL! (Try it: last I checked trying to use LUMINANCE or LUMINANCE_ALPHA as a target for FBO rendering resulted in FRAMEBUFFER_INCOMPLETE regardless of the target texture format. I'm still baffled that this doesn't work though, so I really want someone to post a snippet and prove me wrong!)


BTW, just tried this, and got GL_FRAMEBUFFER_COMPLETE_EXT. So it seems to work fine with my NVidia 8600 GTS (Linux driver) attaching a single channel FP32 texture generated as follows,

glTexImage2D(GL_TEXTURE_2D,0,GL_LUMINANCE32F_ARB,x,y,0,GL_LUMINANCE,GL_FLOAT,d);



Demirug
Demirug
Quote:
Original post by AndyTX
There are a few more, but the above have accounted for some pretty major problems when trying to do more advanced (GP)GPU implementations. So while the G80 extensions are great and open up a lot of functionality, they don't actually bring GL into parody with D3D10. However since you have to use GL to get *any* of the new features on XP/Mac/Linux, there's still a place for it I think... as long as ATI updates their drivers soon!


I don’t think we will see any more extensions before OGL 3.0 is ready. Unfortunately it was postponed today again.
AndyPandyV2
AndyPandyV2
Great, the OGL situation is getting pretty tiresome, I'm guessing once openGL 3.0 is released ATI takes 5 months to get drivers out. Mount Evens will probably be delayed another year, and ATI again will take forever to release drivers... so basically it will be 1 - 1.5 years before SM4.0 is available in across the board in OpenGL. Makes me want to switch to Dx10, if only it didn't require Vista.
Fiddler
Fiddler
The wind is whispering some interesting things regarding Ati's OpenGL drivers: they seem to have rewritten the OpenGL driver backend from scratch (they have been working on it for three years) and it seems it will be enabled before the end of this year. OpenGL support on Linux sure improved in the last two releases too, and I wouldn't be (too) surprised to see some new features soon.
[OpenTK: C# OpenGL 4.4, OpenGL ES 3.0 and OpenAL 1.1. Now with Linux/KMS support!]
AndyTX
AndyTX
Quote:
Original post by TimothyFarrar
BTW, just tried this, and got GL_FRAMEBUFFER_COMPLETE_EXT. So it seems to work fine with my NVidia 8600 GTS (Linux driver) attaching a single channel FP32 texture generated as follows

Okay, cool, maybe they finally fixed that! I'll have to try that out later, thanks for the info :)

Quote:
Original post by Fiddler
The wind is whispering some interesting things regarding Ati's OpenGL drivers: they seem to have rewritten the OpenGL driver backend from scratch (they have been working on it for three years) and it seems it will be enabled before the end of this year.

Apparently the "rewritten" drivers are what we already have under Vista, and they're nothing special. Indeed they have some problems that the original ones didn't even, and definitely don't support any new R600 features :(

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