Original post by ravyne2001 If you consider this an important issue, you have two options:
1- Tell them that this clause is an issue for you and why. ...
2- You can simply choose not to sign the contract and not accept their offer of employment. ...
You have many more options than this.
3- Sign anyway and ignore it, taking whatever risks are inherent.
4- Don't sign it and try to make it look like an accident. Similar alternatives are to "forget" to bring that particular paper back amongst all the other legal papers you are undoubtedly signing. It looks stupid if you get caught, though.
5- TALK TO YOUR OWN EMPLOYMENT LAWYER. I highly recommend this option.
6- etc.
Most of those simply aren't viable options. #3 and #4 simply choose to ignore the issue, rather than resolve it, which is foolhardy at best. #5 is perfectly valid and I would encourage that above all else. #6 is pretty pointless, we all know you can do any number of weird things in response to such a clause, but pulling a picture of a bunny with a pancake on its head out of your wallet and handing it to the employer isn't likely to get the response you're hoping for, unfortunately. [grin]
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Ravyne2001 missed one important detail, though. Some locations have basic rights that cannot even be given away through contract, or where a contract that contains them is unlawful...
Perhaps you missed it, but the first couple sentences of paragraph two of my original response says exactly that, citing California and Washington as examples, in the event that I recalled those states correctly.
Don't ask why but I do have some sick fascination with going to work for 8+ hours and then coming home and spending the rest of the night working on my own stuff. I did that the entire year I spent working there. I'm a rather strange individual I know.
It's not sick, and it's not strange. I've been doing it for 2 years and aim to keep on going. Every programmer I work with does coding of their own in their spare time. And all of us work 10 hour days, and sometimes come in on the weekends. A lot of coders choose to code in their spare time because more often than not when you code for a game company you’re not coding the stuff you *really* want to code, so you code what you have to at work and program what you love to program in your spare time.
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Is it typical for a game development company to have a clause that states that any work that the employee works on (related to coding obviously), even in their spare time, is owned by the company?
I, thankfully, didn't have this clause. I was worried something like this might come up, so I mentioned to them that I had two game projects I was working on in my spare time. They had a form for me to fill out where I specified what the project was and what kind of work I'd be doing on it, so they'd know ahead of time what I was doing. As for their take on spare-time coding, they essentially said as long as I keep my coding at work and coding at home entirely separate, I can do what I want.
Pretty much most places I have worked for have had this sort of thing in their contract. Plenty of people have already commented that this is normal so no need to add my part there.
You should only worry about it if you are going to create something that you intend to release or make money off of. For most employed people this is difficult to find the time for, so if I were you I would think seriously about negotiating these points out of a contract if they are likely to be meaningless. My own point of view on this is...who cares if someone else technically owns a demo I wrote? In order to make use of it they'd still benefit from still having me, more than the code and if they want to code is it important enough to care about? Further, do they care enough about all my little demos to want it?
Usually the answer is no. The fact of the matter is that these clauses are in contracts for entirely different reasons to what they suggest. They are in place to protect the company in a position where you might make a claim to something you did for them, which is legitimately theirs. It covers further potential bases for such a claim.
I've heard a number of people say these contract points are unenforcable if you did indeed do the work on your own time and without their equipment but if this is important enough to you to know for sure then only a lawyer would be best answering it.
So unless you think you might invent something, put the negotiation points into other parts of your contract and even use these points to negotiate other ones up.
Oh and if you do negotiate these things out, beware of those who have you sign things after being employed, or don't get around to finalizing all things until your first day. I had this with a company once and declared all of my own engines and code in an appendix they provided. I thought this was a good thing because it allowed me to enumerate previous inventions and continue work on them. Only thing is, it never got processed until I started at the company. HR claimed to have lost it and I had to re-submit. At that point, the lawyers looked at it and realized that I had submitted so much pre-existing technology that they couldn't prevent me from doing anything. It never got finalized or signed, despite some pestering. It was just one of those things they kept promising to do but never did.
Even in this case...did I care? No, because even before I started I realized I was not going to have the time I would like to work on this stuff, I was just doing this 'in case'. I also felt that I could prove I had submitted this prior, should there have been an issue.
Still, there is a good solution there where if people are prepared to let you work on things that already exist, ask if your technology can be named in an appendix and unlike me...don't start work until it is signed.
Thanks for all the responses. I wasn't sure whether it was typical or not but have gathered that, at least on this side of the world, it's fairly common.
Don't ask why but I do have some sick fascination with going to work for 8+ hours and then coming home and spending the rest of the night working on my own stuff. I did that the entire year I spent working there. I'm a rather strange individual I know.
I can understand why the company wouldn't want me to publish something while I work for them. That's pretty obvious. After having talked with them about it, I think we've reached an understanding which is acceptable for both of us. I can still work on it without publishing which is more than OK by me.
At least after reading these posts, I learned that companies will barter with their employees and hopefully be reasonable about it. Thanks for the input from everyone. Ratings++.
Shawn
You NEED to get this in writing. Otherwise when you quit and then publish your game, they can get you. It might seem unlikely but if you quit in the middle of a project it can annoy them. Or, worse, if they make you redundant they can claim you have breached your contract and refuse to pay you any redundancy money.
Firstly, the issues do not start, legally, from the moment you start working, but from the moment you sign. So you really should have all issued cleared up before you sign anything.
Secondly, while this is a standard protection statement for software companies, you can surely negotiate it. Put yourself in your boss's shoes. He does not want more competition especially not encouraged with the tools he owns or with man power he pays. Aside from that, you may find that they are completely ok to giving you freedom of study/work outside the company as long as you don't come into direct competition with them. Be honest and tell them what you want and assure them of the competition issue. Trying cheap tricks like "forgetting you signed" is a sure way to get you both fired and in legal trouble. Need I say it is also dishonest?
Lastly, there is no point in giving away all your time and effort for a paycheck. Signing all your previous and future work into someone else's company is, pardon my french, plain stupid, unless you own a significant piece of that company. But your mileage may vary.
