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I can has unemployment check?

Started by smr Jun 24, 2008 at 7:37 PM 40 replies 13.1k views

Original Post

Jun 24, 2008 at 7:37 PM

As of approximately 10:45 AM CST today I am for the first time since the year 2000 unemployed. I was 18. So I was sitting in a meeting with a few other developers and technicians when our conference room is invaded by other random Pathware employees. It turns out everyone in the company (~35 people) is being called to a impromptu meeting. Weird. The president walks in. He looks frustrated. At this point I know nothing good can come of this meeting. Once everyone is in, the door is shut. Then he lays it on us. Pathware (formerly SVI Healthcare, Inc) is to be closed down effective immediately. All employees, save two to take care of some HR related duties, are let go. We are to pack our things, give back our keys and be out today. Apparently the owners decided that a $20 million dollar tax write off was worth more to them than the company. I believe the president said it best when he said that it's "horse shit."

Tiffany_Smith

Jun 24, 2008 at 7:39 PM

Wow! Sorry to hear that, I hope you find another job soon!

Samith

Jun 24, 2008 at 7:42 PM

Sucks, dude.

If you don't mind me asking, how does firing everyone give the owners a tax write off?

capn_midnight

Jun 24, 2008 at 8:05 PM

Whoa, no notice? Check with your state labour board, you might be able to file a complaint and get some kind of settlement. I know the laws between IL and PA are pretty different, but here employers are required to give advanced notice before changes in pay and employment status. Filing a complaint with the PA state labour board is pretty easy, free, and anonymous if you request it as such. Maybe IL has something similar.

zer0wolf

Jun 24, 2008 at 10:28 PM

Quote:
Original post by capn_midnight
Whoa, no notice? Check with your state labour board, you might be able to file a complaint and get some kind of settlement. I know the laws between IL and PA are pretty different, but here employers are required to give advanced notice before changes in pay and employment status. Filing a complaint with the PA state labour board is pretty easy, free, and anonymous if you request it as such. Maybe IL has something similar.

Very doubtful. The OPs employment contract probably had a "can be canceled by either party" clause in it. The OP very much so can get unemployment until s/he finds a new job though!

LessBread

Jun 24, 2008 at 10:31 PM

Bummer dude! That's a shitty way to get a pink slip.

Oluseyi

Jun 25, 2008 at 12:14 AM

Yeah, I'm with zer0wolf; smr's probably an "at will" employee, with a clause stating that either party can terminate the relationship at any time without prior notice.

(On evil days, I consider doing that to my employer. Like one payday, walk into my boss' office: "Listen, this isn't working for me and I've got another gig paying me more so... Cool runnings, dude." [evil])

@smr:
Sucks, man. I've been through something similar, though it happened in stages with my former employer (actually dragged from 2006 through 2008, when the company was finally liquidated). Here's hoping you find something else soon.

d000hg

Jun 25, 2008 at 2:52 AM

Quote:
Original post by Oluseyi
Yeah, I'm with zer0wolf; smr's probably an "at will" employee, with a clause stating that either party can terminate the relationship at any time without prior notice.

If it's a real job, the contract should stipulate a time for either party to give notice. I've never had a job where I can give less than a month's notice, and my employer 2-4 weeks.

It's definitely worth trying anyway, especially if you can get other employees onboard. Did nobody ask about this in the meeting?

By the way, are you allowed to disclose this information publicly?

Hnefi

Jun 25, 2008 at 3:07 AM

Quote:
Original post by Oluseyi
Yeah, I'm with zer0wolf; smr's probably an "at will" employee, with a clause stating that either party can terminate the relationship at any time without prior notice.

That's legal in the states?!

NLDEV

Jun 25, 2008 at 3:20 AM

Quote:
Original post by Hnefi
Quote:
Original post by Oluseyi
Yeah, I'm with zer0wolf; smr's probably an "at will" employee, with a clause stating that either party can terminate the relationship at any time without prior notice.

That's legal in the states?!

Indeed.

asp_

Jun 25, 2008 at 3:53 AM

Quote:

That's legal in the states?!

Not only is it legal it was quite common where I used to work. I saw a few people get laid off and leave the office never to come back again the same day. It usually swings both ways though so if you're important and are doing a good job it becomes a huge risk for the employer. I quite liked the extra mobility it gave me, unlike in Sweden where you can have a 6 months notice and 2 months is the bare minimum I've seen. Then again if you're bad at what you do you really need the notice period to be as long as possible.

OrangyTang

Jun 25, 2008 at 3:59 AM

Quote:
Original post by d000hg
Quote:
Original post by Oluseyi
Yeah, I'm with zer0wolf; smr's probably an "at will" employee, with a clause stating that either party can terminate the relationship at any time without prior notice.
If it's a real job, the contract should stipulate a time for either party to give notice. I've never had a job where I can give less than a month's notice, and my employer 2-4 weeks.

It's a US<->UK thing. I gather most US jobs are "at will", even for skilled workers.

Hnefi

Jun 25, 2008 at 4:34 AM

Quote:
Original post by asp_
Quote:

That's legal in the states?!

Not only is it legal it was quite common where I used to work. I saw a few people get laid off and leave the office never to come back again the same day. It usually swings both ways though so if you're important and are doing a good job it becomes a huge risk for the employer. I quite liked the extra mobility it gave me, unlike in Sweden where you can have a 6 months notice and 2 months is the bare minimum I've seen. Then again if you're bad at what you do you really need the notice period to be as long as possible.

I believe two weeks is the minimum legal notice. Common practice depends on what type of job you have, but a month is rather typical - I've never ever heard of 6 months, except in the case of large-scale layoffs in which case different rules apply. I'd never take a job without a period of notice - that security is worth a lot. But YMMV, I guess.

d000hg

Jun 25, 2008 at 5:03 AM

Quote:
Original post by OrangyTang
Quote:
Original post by d000hg
Quote:
Original post by Oluseyi
Yeah, I'm with zer0wolf; smr's probably an "at will" employee, with a clause stating that either party can terminate the relationship at any time without prior notice.
If it's a real job, the contract should stipulate a time for either party to give notice. I've never had a job where I can give less than a month's notice, and my employer 2-4 weeks.

It's a US<->UK thing. I gather most US jobs are "at will", even for skilled workers.

Wow, that's insane. So if you get another job offer you just go to work as normal, and at 5pm say "by the way, I quit"? How does this work with getting projects wrapped up, knowledge transferred, etc? Lots of UK companies obviously don't hold you to work your full notice but it's normal to be expected to tidy up loose ends.

Oluseyi

Jun 25, 2008 at 8:22 AM

Quote:
Original post by d000hg
Wow, that's insane. So if you get another job offer you just go to work as normal, and at 5pm say "by the way, I quit"?

Possibly, but most people still give notice. Our industries are "incestuous," and you don't want to unnecessarily burn bridges with someone who you might run into - or who might otherwise influence your career advancement - in the future.

Quote:
How does this work with getting projects wrapped up, knowledge transferred, etc?

Poorly, but most companies are less concerned with that and more concerned that an employee who is leaving, and particularly one who has been let go, doesn't vandalize the information store. This is why in most US companies the individual is let go and immediately escorted out of the building by security.

Yes, you read that right.

What the preceding implies is that, despite the at-will clause, employers invoke it far more regularly than employees. I'm actually half-serious about trying it out when next I'm ready to move (which may be soon).

ToohrVyk

Jun 25, 2008 at 8:41 AM

Fun. In France, you have to give a notice of approximately one month when you leave or let someone go, and you also need a reason for letting someone go.

The exception to this is the first six months, where you can let go people without reason, and with very short notices. If the employer and employee agree, this six-month period is skipped.

I've seen an employer get screwed over this: they decided to keep the six-month trial period even though the employee wished to remain. Then, the employee got an excellent proposal and left the former employer within a few days in the middle of an important project.

Luckless

Jun 25, 2008 at 9:08 AM

I'm not 100% sure, but my understanding of that part of the labour laws here in Canada are that either party are required to give 2 weeks notice, and in tech jobs it is common to give someone 2 weeks extra vacation as you fire them. Because of the risk of "Well, I'm being fired, so lets format the network drives." or other things like that. It is a nice little work around to the two weeks notice bit.

OrangyTang

Jun 25, 2008 at 9:19 AM

Quote:
Original post by Oluseyi
I'm actually half-serious about trying it out when next I'm ready to move (which may be soon).

I don't see why not - after all both you and the company agreed to and signed the contract, so they're obviously ok with it. The question is whether you'll be personally screwing over someone you respect (rather than just the company as a whole).

Oluseyi

Jun 25, 2008 at 9:23 AM

Quote:
Original post by OrangyTang
Quote:
Original post by Oluseyi
I'm actually half-serious about trying it out when next I'm ready to move (which may be soon).

I don't see why not - after all both you and the company agreed to and signed the contract, so they're obviously ok with it. The question is whether you'll be personally screwing over someone you respect (rather than just the company as a whole).

No. I won't. Trust me. [evil]

BeanDog

Jun 25, 2008 at 9:40 AM

Quote:
Original post by d000hg
Wow, that's insane. So if you get another job offer you just go to work as normal, and at 5pm say "by the way, I quit"? How does this work with getting projects wrapped up, knowledge transferred, etc? Lots of UK companies obviously don't hold you to work your full notice but it's normal to be expected to tidy up loose ends.

Sure, it's legal, and they can't come after you in court. But they can give you the crappiest reference check ever when a future employer calls them to find out whether to hire you. It's always in your best interest to leave friends behind in old companies rather than enemies.

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