F1?

I'm not terribly taken with F1, it got boring, predictable and uncompetitive in the Schumacher days when he just won race after race after race seemingly by default, not to mention the farce where Rubens Barrichello was ordered to let Schumacher overtake and win. Big crashes were rare (and if they did happen ITV was away on adverts [flame]) and the grid was pretty static from the start.

(Mind you, I think football has gone the same way - it's just Man Utd winning absolutely everything; no competition, no excitement, it's just so boring although I do hope and believe that Ferguson's retirement will change that as nobody will be able to match his managerial qualities and the team will suffer as a result).

Cue rate down and flaming, but I am also sick to death of Lewis Hamilton and hearing about him. By many accounts the man is a total arsehole and he's been given all this money for just moving a computer-controlled go-kart round a track. The all-time greats like Stirling Moss and Jackie Stewart were real drivers. Another hyped racing great, Damon Hill, dropped off the radar after he left Williams and the rest of his career was a joke. Was he an actual good driver or was he an average driver with a good car? I wonder the same about Lewis Hamilton.

I say bring back the old days except with modern safety equipment (IIRC they didn't even wear crash helmets in the 50s).

If you didn't like racing before, you're not going to like it any more now. I don't follow too closely, but IIRC a lot of the rule-changes for this year were in an effort to reduce the operating costs for teams (and likewise give teams with shallower pockets a more even footing). Things like a freeze on engine specs.


Still... I don't follow it closely myself. I swear every race I tried to/had time to watch last year ended up being at like midnight local time here.

I always liked F1 when I wanted to watch any racing. And yea, Schumacher was a bit of a guaranteed thing. What made it worse was I had a buddy who was convinced he, and he alone, would pick Schumacher to win and would call you all sorts of names when you didn't bet against him heh.

@ukdeveloper I agree with every word.

F1 never had the same appeal to me after the Nigel Mansell days. Now MotoGP, that's a different story. Valentino Rossi is a legend and after some of the wins he's pulled off, deserves everything he gets.

From what I've read, the new rule changes should make it an exciting season. I stopped watching for the reasons mentioned - boring and predictable. But new tweaks like the booster for passing should make it a little more edge of the seat.

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from here: Tyres F1 returns to slicks in 2009. With no grooves, grip will increase by around 20%, bringing a significant performance gain. However, that gain will be offset by the reduced downforce levels of the new aerodynamic rules (see below). The overall effect should be reduced performance through high-speed corners. Teams will still have the choice of two dry tyre compounds and will still have to use both compounds during a race. KERS Teams have the option of using the new Kinetic Energy Recovery System (or KERS), which recovers kinetic energy generated by the car's braking process. This energy is stored using a mechanical flywheel or an electrical battery and then made available to the driver, in set amounts per lap, via a "boost button" on the steering wheel. Under the current regulations the power gain equates to around 80 horsepower, available for just under seven seconds per lap. Engines Drivers must now use the same engine for three, rather than two, consecutive events. There are also plans for measures to equalise engine performance between teams. These plans are yet to be agreed. Aerodynamics Cars will look cleaner (although not necessarily more stylish), thanks to new dimensional rules that outlaw extraneous items such as barge boards, winglets and turning vanes. As well as reducing overall aero performance, the revisions are also designed to increase overtaking by making the car less susceptible to turbulence when closely following another driver. The most obvious changes are to the front and rear wings. Testing This year's testing allowance of 30,000km is expected to be slashed to 20,000 in a bid to reduce development costs.

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Original post by ukdeveloper I'm not terribly taken with F1, it got boring, predictable and uncompetitive in the Schumacher days when he just won race after race after race seemingly by default, not to mention the farce where Rubens Barrichello was ordered to let Schumacher overtake and win. Big crashes were rare (and if they did happen ITV was away on adverts [flame]) and the grid was pretty static from the start. (Mind you, I think football has gone the same way - it's just Man Utd winning absolutely everything; no competition, no excitement, it's just so boring although I do hope and believe that Ferguson's retirement will change that as nobody will be able to match his managerial qualities and the team will suffer as a result). Cue rate down and flaming, but I am also sick to death of Lewis Hamilton and hearing about him. By many accounts the man is a total arsehole and he's been given all this money for just moving a computer-controlled go-kart round a track. The all-time greats like Stirling Moss and Jackie Stewart were real drivers. Another hyped racing great, Damon Hill, dropped off the radar after he left Williams and the rest of his career was a joke. Was he an actual good driver or was he an average driver with a good car? I wonder the same about Lewis Hamilton. I say bring back the old days except with modern safety equipment (IIRC they didn't even wear crash helmets in the 50s).

Not to mention is underserved knighthood...

I think they should create a racing league with no regulations on engine specs, etc. It'd be interesting to see some of the engineering that people come up with in order to win.

I currently think the LeMons (note: that's LeMons, not LeMans) is more exciting than F1, but I haven't had the chance to watch either.

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Original post by d000hg F1?

Ahaha, I read the title of this thread and I thought it was going to be you asking for help.

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Original post by ukdeveloper Cue rate down and flaming, but I am also sick to death of Lewis Hamilton and hearing about him. By many accounts the man is a total arsehole and he's been given all this money for just moving a computer-controlled go-kart round a track. The all-time greats like Stirling Moss and Jackie Stewart were real drivers. Another hyped racing great, Damon Hill, dropped off the radar after he left Williams and the rest of his career was a joke. Was he an actual good driver or was he an average driver with a good car? I wonder the same about Lewis Hamilton. I say bring back the old days except with modern safety equipment (IIRC they didn't even wear crash helmets in the 50s).

Exactly how old are you that you can boast the greatness of drivers from 40-50 years ago to put down the drivers of today? In any team sport you can find, the team that has the largest budget always has an advantage. When dealing with human talent, the difference isn't always as great, but when it comes to tech. of course the team with the biggest R&D pocketbooks will have an advantage. That isn't the driver's fault, it's FIA's for not regulating things in a manner that evens the field.

I wonder how many ppl have heard of this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A1gp

unlike f1 the races are much more even
yet it doesnt even get 10% of the hype f1 does (for obvious reasons, marketing sponsership etc)

Apprently none of the people sayign 'waaaah, F1 is boring' bothered to watch the last two seasons. I've been watching F1 for more years than I can remember (certainly since the early 90s, I can even remember where I was when I heard of Senna's death) and yes, during the end of Schumacher's reign it was getting a bit predictable.

Then he retired and the last two seasons have been great, the latest certainly as the competition was becoming closer. Yes, you sometimes got someone leap off in front (although that happened less often) but the TV coverage realised that following one guy lap after lap was boring so instead they were covering the racing in the following cars where you could get some epic long running battles for the lower places. The night race was also awesome and a good addition to the calender. (As for the lack of crashes, I like a good crash (ie one where no one is seriously hurt) as much as the next man but F1 isn't about that, it's about the racing.)

HelplessFool is correct in that the FIA should have done more to regulate things before now, we might have no had a few boring years before the recent times.

As for Hamilton, yes he is driving a good car but the guy certainly has talent when it comes to driving; see the lap he did on topgear a few years back in the Reasonably Priced Car when, despite the track being oily and wet, he put in a time 3/10ths of a second slower than Stig who did it in the dry. Maybe if he was in a worse car he wouldn't do as well, who knows and I suspect this is the reason why Hill didn't do as well when he decided to go with Arrows as the car simply wasn't as fast/good as the other.

As for 'moving a computer-controlled go-kart round a track'; I would argue that the cars these days are MORE demanding than those even 20 years ago (never mind back in the old days of Jackie Stewart et al, who were also great drivers but very much of their time) when engine power was at it highest (1,100 bhp in 1987), they corner faster and while they have lower powered engines they are going just as fast, if not faster. The computers are required to keep things going and because the speeds of the various tiers of cars are that close; everything beyond that is driver controlled. You get a sense of this from when Richard Hammond from Top Gear did 2 laps in an F1 car.

As for the changes themselves, if it makes things even more intresting/fun to watch then I'm all for it. We'll see how it goes in 2 weeks time...

(As aside note, I find it amusing that someone was complaining about ManU winning everything a day or so before they got thumped 4-1 by Liverpool, heh, talk about undermining the point a little [grin])

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KERS Teams have the option of using the new Kinetic Energy Recovery System (or KERS), which recovers kinetic energy generated by the car's braking process. This energy is stored using a mechanical flywheel or an electrical battery and then made available to the driver, in set amounts per lap, via a "boost button" on the steering wheel. Under the current regulations the power gain equates to around 80 horsepower, available for just under seven seconds per lap.

Wow, that really exists? I always planned to use that in a driving game to get TV-style driving - you know how they're side by side and one can suddenly jump ahead - I thought it was totally unrealistic and I'd invented it.

Although in an F1 car, a battery or flywheel big enough to store that amount of energy would be a pretty big chunk of mass wouldn't it?

Screw the F1. By taking the races away from famous venues where people are passionate about racing, only to give them to cities with loads of cash but where no one gives a shit, well they pretty much killed it. With the demise of the Montreal Grand Prix, there is no F1 race left in North America. What that means is that constructors can hardly use F1 racing as a way of promoting their cars in the huge NA market anymore, which is why so many of them are leaving it.

Yeah Im still bitter about the Montreal Grand Prix.It was one of the most watched sport event in the world for $#@ sake, and the kickoff of the summer party season in Montreal. Screw Ecclestone, really.

I'm not a huge follower of F1, however I have attended the F1 at Albert Park for the last 2 years and am going again this year.

Albert Park this year is a twighlight race, starting at 5pm local time. That should spark at least a little interest from fans OS. UK should be able to watch it at 7am ish.

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Teams have the option of using the new Kinetic Energy Recovery System (or KERS), which recovers kinetic energy generated by the car's braking process

I'm not a F1 fan but this system seems like a lot of trouble for little gain. You need a huge battery to store any significat amount of energy in it, also it complicates the bracking system (and decreases its reliability).

[Edited by - Calin on March 16, 2009 5:45:19 AM]

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Original post by Steadtler Screw Ecclestone, really.

Don't forget his lap dog Hermann Tilke who is responsible for all those boring circuits in Malaysia, Bahrain and China, who ruined the Hockenheimring and is about to ruin the Fuij Speedway and Donington Park...

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What that means is that constructors can hardly use F1 racing as a way of promoting their cars in the huge NA market anymore,

why do they even bother? seriously
Im talking toyota, honda etc that where the only things they promote is they always lose

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Original post by zedz Quote: What that means is that constructors can hardly use F1 racing as a way of promoting their cars in the huge NA market anymore, why do they even bother? seriously Im talking toyota, honda etc that where the only things they promote is they always lose

Honda aren't in it anymore. However, it's like any sport sponsorship, but on a larger scale. Instead of Ferrari sponsoring a Football team, the create their own team in a sport targetted at their demographic.

I like F1. I just about the only form of motorsport I care to watch. While it may seem boring on the surface, there is a surprising amount of not directly racing related strategy involved with engine/aurodynamics tweaking, tire selection, and pit stop strategies.

I actually think the new rule changes could make it more interesting for the "casual" viewer: As the cars gets more even, there will be more in-fighting. Previously, especially in the Schumacher days, there was a tendency for the cars to be spread out so much that there was almost no overtakings (other than lapping the slowest cars).

As for F1 cars being computerized go-carts, try watching Richard Hammond from Top Gear take one for a spin: clicky [smile] For the impatient I can reveal that it takes him a couple of tries to get out of the pit and onto the track(!) and a couple of further tries to complete two laps. And he's not exatly a motering beginner.