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Onboard energy management in a space adventure game (screenshots inside)

Started by sitwind Nov 18, 2009 at 4:33 PM 20 replies 2.9k views

Original Post

Nov 18, 2009 at 4:33 PM

Hi, I am working on a space adventure game. It lets the player engage in space combat or fly to different planets to find missions, recruit new crew members or trade in commodities. One of the goal I really want is to treat the ship more like a NPC and the home of the crews, not merely a form of transportation. For that purpose I think it is important to give the components like weapon, shield or generator on the ship and the ship herself more individuality. As a developer and a person, my opinion is no doubt very biased. So I would like to hear some different opinions from people who are also interested in game design. An idea is to implement some mechanism for the generatos, which supply power to all other components on the ship, in order to make it interesting and fun to play with, but at the same time not too complex. Ideally it should also play a role in the gameplay. So the the standard design that generators differ only in price and output will not suffice. What I have at the moment is give each generator unique characteristic, it is basically the energy output in relation to the damage taken. And the player decide how much energy is distributed to certain component like weapon or shield. Below are two such characteristics:

The one on the left looses power capacity at an even pace when taking more and more damage; While the one on the right is hardly effected by light damages but looses capacity very quickly when a certain damage threshold is reached. I hope it will have some impact on the style how the game is played. If the player has good gunner in his crew and enjoys space combat (which means he will get hit more often) the generator on the left is better suited. The generator on the right is maybe for someone who has an able pilot in his crew and prefer to outfly the enemies. In this case shield and engine are more important than fire power. And a generator which stays in peak performance as long as the damage is relatively light is more desirable. So that is what I got so far on the generators, any feedback is appreciated! Thanx for reading. P.S. For those interested here is some additional info about this game:

The content is seperated from the game engine itself, the actors/missions/buildings are added via Lua script. I use C# and Truevision3D, so far the graphic engine / physics / path finding are mostly finished. What's left are the mission system / crew management / space combat. And of course quite some 3d modeling and animation. I will create a small game world to have some fun :) Those interested in creating his own sceneries could use lua script to do so.

doomhascome

Nov 18, 2009 at 4:49 PM

If you've ever played the Warcraft 3 mod Cruiser Command, it has a different (but interesting) take on power consumption:

Power is generated at a steady rate, which can be upgraded. Power is also used at a steady rate by different subsystems. The key is the alteration of power consumption; you can choose how much power you want to spend. And you there is a cap on power stored, which can also be upgraded.

You could have a similar system: every subsystem can run at different powers (unpowered, lightly, medium, heavy), which would give different effects. Maybe some things radically improve from medium to heavy, while others have a barely noticeable shift. Different generators would have different attributes: power generated per second, power cap, maximum that can be routed to one subsystem, requirements to create power (money, materials), and also how it functions in combat. It would be cool if some generators are more unstable: they easily give away power, but lose a ton if a subsystem fails (they just shoot the energy into space). So you may be able to have a really good shield, but if it breaks you'll have no power for guns for a bit.

The game looks pretty cool as it is, though.

justkevin

Nov 18, 2009 at 5:18 PM

I'm working on a similar concept (searching these forums for "full power to shields" will bring up a thread I started on this topic).

In my design there aren't different generator profiles, although it's an interesting idea. Instead, the player makes choices on where to "spend" power.

Ship systems have three states: Off/On/Max. Off is self explanatory and doesn't consume any power. On runs the system normally at normal power consumption. Max runs the system in an overdrive mode, with higher "output" but lower efficiency-- your shields charge 50% faster and have a 50% higher max strength, but at a cost of twice as much energy. So less efficient, but maybe worth it if it means the difference between blowing up and not blowing up.

Tiblanc

Nov 18, 2009 at 5:18 PM

To add to the list doomhascome provided, you could add weight, space and complexity. Weight affects your ship by requiring more energy to accelerate at the same speed. Space is limited, so a bigger generator leaves less room for other stuff. Complexity is how much processing power the generator requires to function. Max complexity can be determined by the ship's computer(another component). That would give a lot of different choices and would increase synergy with other components. Fast ships would have to do without the heavy generators(less output), ships with big guns would have to use less sophisticated generators(they have higher complexity) and a big transport could use a cheap, big, polluting low tech generator because they're so huge they don't care.

sitwind

Nov 18, 2009 at 5:27 PM

>And you there is a cap on power stored, which can also be upgraded.
Yes, I have a similar thing in the game. Did not mention it since i want to
concentrate on the generators. It is independent from the generators
though. Some kind of energy cell which could store energy, the advantage is
it could instantly replace energy lost from shield or weapon. The drawback
is it's slow to recharge so only recharged during non-combat periods.
And more importantly it tooks spaces away which could be used to install
other components.

>every subsystem can run at different powers (unpowered, lightly, medium,
>heavy), which would give different effects. Maybe some things radically
>improve from medium to heavy, while others have a barely noticeable shift.
>Different generators would have different attributes: power generated per
>second, power cap, maximum that can be routed to one subsystem
Yes, I have them already. Different state of components will be coded in different colors. (black, red, yellow, green). :)

>It would be cool if some generators are more unstable: they easily give away
>power, but lose a ton if a subsystem fails (they just shoot the energy into
>space).
I thought that is what the generator on the right shows, if it gets damaged
a little too much it loose massively on output. Or do you mean something like
random power losses?

sitwind

Nov 18, 2009 at 5:39 PM

Quote:
Original post by justkevin
I'm working on a similar concept (searching these forums for "full power to shields" will bring up a thread I started on this topic).

In my design there aren't different generator profiles, although it's an interesting idea. Instead, the player makes choices on where to "spend" power.

Ship systems have three states: Off/On/Max. Off is self explanatory and doesn't
consume any power. On runs the system normally at normal power consumption.
Max runs the system in an overdrive mode, with higher "output" but lower
efficiency-- your shields charge 50% faster and have a 50% higher max strength,
but at a cost of twice as much energy. So less efficient, but maybe worth it if
it means the difference between blowing up and not blowing up.

The-player-choose-where-to-spend-power is already in the screenshot i think :)

The idea you are having is very interesting. You mean if the player want to
increase shield regeneration well beyond its normal operating range? But i am
sure you need some special interface design to implement that feature. Btw,
what consequence does it have gameplaywise if the shield blow up?

The implemention i am happy now is just have each shield have different power
input/shield regenerate conversion rate and max power regeneration rate. So it
is always a balance issue when the player want to purchase a shield.

sitwind

Nov 18, 2009 at 5:50 PM

Quote:
Original post by Tiblanc
To add to the list doomhascome provided, you could add weight, space and complexity. Weight affects your ship by requiring more energy to accelerate at the same speed. Space is limited, so a bigger generator leaves less room for other stuff. Complexity is how much processing power the generator requires to function. Max complexity can be determined by the ship's computer(another component). That would give a lot of different choices and would increase synergy with other components. Fast ships would have to do without the heavy generators(less output), ships with big guns would have to use less sophisticated generators(they have higher complexity) and a big transport could use a cheap, big, polluting low tech generator because they're so huge they don't care.

Space is taken into consideration. Since there are only so many
slot on the ship.

The Complexity System in addition to the power distribution system will
certainly make the game more complex. :) Currently, most components are
weapon, shield and generators. but there are a few other components like
life support and central computer system. i try to keep the number as low as possible, only those effecting agmeplay will be included.

P.S.:
i see it is quite impossible to limit the topic to generators only.

justkevin

Nov 18, 2009 at 6:42 PM

Quote:
Original post by sitwind
The-player-choose-where-to-spend-power is already in the screenshot i think :)

Sorry I didn't see that in the screenshot-- is the shield bar actually a slider that the player uses? Can players set everything to max?

Quote:
The idea you are having is very interesting. You mean if the player want to increase shield regeneration well beyond its normal operating range? But i am
sure you need some special interface design to implement that feature. Btw,
what consequence does it have gameplaywise if the shield blow up?

It's not that special-- right now the design calls for button that lets the player choose Off/On/Max. So whatever UI I provide for turning things on/off needs to support 3 states instead of 2. I'm currently thinking something like a select list or button bar.

sitwind

Nov 18, 2009 at 9:12 PM

Quote:
Original post by justkevin
Quote:
Original post by sitwind
The-player-choose-where-to-spend-power is already in the screenshot i think :)

Sorry I didn't see that in the screenshot-- is the shield bar actually a slider that the player uses? Can players set everything to max?

I see what you mean, other than the generators, the screenshots are not
very informative. I think they are not very clear to doomhascome and Tiblanc
either. Here is another screen shot:

I checked your Max Shield post, invariably such a topic ended up about Wing
Commander :) But you missed another great game with the same mechanism:
X-Wing!

Do you have any screenshots from your game yet?

justkevin

Nov 19, 2009 at 8:58 AM

Quote:
Original post by sitwind
I see what you mean, other than the generators, the screenshots are not
very informative. I think they are not very clear to doomhascome and Tiblanc
either. Here is another screen shot:

I checked your Max Shield post, invariably such a topic ended up about Wing
Commander :) But you missed another great game with the same mechanism:
X-Wing!

Do you have any screenshots from your game yet?

So if I want to increase power to shields, is that top bar a slider that I drag?

I'm not ready to post any screenshots, yet, I'm still nailing down some of the interface details.

Pete Michaud

Nov 19, 2009 at 9:36 AM

There are lots of characteristics that a generator might have. The output after damage is a good one, but what about stability? Generators actually produce energy within a range, so if you have a super great one it's more precise, but an old/damaged/wonky one will have a wide fluctuation of what it actually outputs. Like the generator is rated for 10kV, plus or minus 2kV.

That opens up the possibility of, say, lights or shields or maybe gravity beginning to "flicker" as you get too close to the wonky generator's max output.

Also, generators generally take fuel, so that's a whole can of worms you could open up. Maybe this one takes coal that you have to continuously stock and store, maybe that one just takes a brick of plutonium. Maybe the fuel choice has consequences for the crew, like the nuclear generator is super compact but it puts out a low level of radiation that reduces the crews' health over time.

Obviously, the actual size and weight of the generator could also make a difference when you're trying to design a ship with limited size.

sitwind

Nov 19, 2009 at 10:22 AM

Quote:
Original post by justkevin
So if I want to increase power to shields, is that top bar a slider that I drag?

I'm not ready to post any screenshots, yet, I'm still nailing down some of the interface details.

Yes, it is the top slider. Interface is always a tricky thing...

[Edited by - sitwind on November 19, 2009 10:22:37 AM]

sitwind

Nov 19, 2009 at 10:55 AM

Quote:
Original post by Pete Michaud
There are lots of characteristics that a generator might have. The output after damage is a good one, but what about stability? Generators actually produce energy within a range, so if you have a super great one it's more precise, but an old/damaged/wonky one will have a wide fluctuation of what it actually outputs. Like the generator is rated for 10kV, plus or minus 2kV.

That opens up the possibility of, say, lights or shields or maybe gravity beginning to "flicker" as you get too close to the wonky generator's max output.

I think stability could well enhance the atmosphere of the game with some visual
feedback but will contribute little to the gameplay.

Increase the power output beyond normal operating range means some temporary
boost in energy but risking some kind of "break down".

If the break down is random, it take the decision away from the player.
If the break down is not random, then it is just a trade off.

The same goes with power fluctuation. if the output is 10kv +/- 2kv, the
average is then 10kv. If the fluctuation happens quickly, the player may not
be aware of it. If slowly, it becomes confusing, like the weapon reload time
is 5 sec and then 10 sec then 15 sec.

justkevin

Nov 19, 2009 at 11:27 AM

Quote:
Original post by sitwind
Quote:
Original post by Pete Michaud
There are lots of characteristics that a generator might have. The output after damage is a good one, but what about stability? Generators actually produce energy within a range, so if you have a super great one it's more precise, but an old/damaged/wonky one will have a wide fluctuation of what it actually outputs. Like the generator is rated for 10kV, plus or minus 2kV.

That opens up the possibility of, say, lights or shields or maybe gravity beginning to "flicker" as you get too close to the wonky generator's max output.

I think stability could well enhance the atmosphere of the game with some visual
feedback but will contribute little to the gameplay.

Increase the power output beyond normal operating range means some temporary
boost in energy but risking some kind of "break down".

If the break down is random, it take the decision away from the player.
If the break down is not random, then it is just a trade off.

The same goes with power fluctuation. if the output is 10kv +/- 2kv, the
average is then 10kv. If the fluctuation happens quickly, the player may not
be aware of it. If slowly, it becomes confusing, like the weapon reload time
is 5 sec and then 10 sec then 15 sec.

I agree with you here sitwind, adding instability to the power output creates a big problem without adding a lot of gameplay. Without some mechanism to clearly explain what causes instability, it will look exactly like a bug in the game (while it's really the game simulating a bug in the ship).

I do like the idea of using cosmetic effects to reinforce the idea that the ship is under stress. Besides having a little meter that says "our power system is 80% damaged" also having control lights flicker adds atmosphere.

sitwind

Nov 19, 2009 at 3:41 PM

Yes, some flashing warning lights or darkening the in ship illumination is surely good for the atmosphere. And it adds nicely to the smokes coming from the damaged ship as well.

Instability will require alot of work to make it really a integrated part of the gameplay.

Pete Michaud

Nov 19, 2009 at 5:23 PM

It doesn't have to be just aesthetic. Shields could flicker in the heat of battle, or weapons could become unstable. So maybe the player has a choice: he can keep an okay shield that keeps total power consumption under 8kV, or he can use a much better shield that will jump consumption to 9kV, and risk it blinking during battle here and there.

sitwind

Nov 23, 2009 at 11:29 AM

Quote:
Original post by Pete Michaud
It doesn't have to be just aesthetic. Shields could flicker in the heat of battle, or weapons could become unstable. So maybe the player has a choice: he can keep an okay shield that keeps total power consumption under 8kV, or he can use a much better shield that will jump consumption to 9kV, and risk it blinking during battle here and there.

So if it is a weapon the stability issue would be like jamming or overheating? For the shield, how should it work? The shield has a certain energy level which is constantly refreshed, flickering would mean the shield could be disabled randomly? If I play the game and these situations happen too often, I would not be very happy.

AngleWyrm

Nov 23, 2009 at 3:55 PM

What's the SciFi of how energy works in the game? Maybe 'Energy' can be piped around the ship on main trunk lines, and in smaller, more refined quantity through radiant energy emitters/pickups. Energy becomes the life blood of the pseudo-organic space organism. Muscle tissue comes in Red and White varieties; Red gives a high power output, but burns through stores and requires a lot of cycling out CO2 & H2O for O2. White gives a cruising-speed output that can be maintained for long periods of time.

The thunderous roar of a chemical rocket is an enormous amount of energy -- but getting some of that to power the cabin lighting? There's a power transformation from raw thermo-mechanical might to refined electric application. Somewhere I once read that a type of fighter jet used the temperature differential between the turbine exhaust and the outer hull to provide air conditioning for the cockpit.

sitwind

Nov 27, 2009 at 9:49 AM

Yeah, it is a pretty cool idea. Originally i also would like
to have some kind of energy infrastructure on the ship.

The energy are transfered through 1 main circuit and 1 or 2
support circuit. If the circuit is broken anywhere, the energy
transfer is stopped. Then the player could repair the circuit
by using different parts or even use a component to restore
the circuit. And using either parallel or seriel connections...
A lot of interesting stuff.

Sadly I did not find any way to implement them without making the
game too complicated. :(

Wavinator

Nov 28, 2009 at 10:12 PM

Some ideas:

* Past a certain threshold all damage is transformed into heat; heat actually has to be radiated through lasers, meaning players get a damage upgrade at the cost of
wearing out their guns (stolen from SF authors Larry Niven and David Brin)

* Graviton generators: Output relates not to damage but to proximity to a gravity well. Such ships become stronger nearer a planet, but the threshold point is somewhat random unless the crew is skilled. Weak point: Ships can't get too near gas giants or stars because the output will become too high.

* Leech generators: Generator doesn't produce power, it stores it like a capacitor and discharges it later. Can be charged near a sun or by energy weapon fire. Effectively a shield/generator combo. Explodes on overflow. (Would make the ship a bit like a World War I battery / diesel submarine)

[EDIT: Chrome clipped my question so I'll post it in another reply]

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