How to start a team/project?

If you spent 7 years and literally have nothing, my guess is this probably isn't for you. If you have money and can fund the project, go nuts. But in general people expect a team leader to have a reasonable amount of technical skills. Unless you're a very rare exception, it's likely not going to fly. Did you ever consider working on someone else's project just to make some connections and demonstrate you are capable?

Is there any element of the medium that you are confident in? Do you feel that you're a decent artist, or programmer, or writer, or something else besides?

If so, it might be worth focussing on that in order to produce something that you can show to others. This may then help in sparking interest, as well as demonstrate what you can contribute to a potential team.

My 2 . harsh cents,

No one is interested in you unless you provide something for him /her

No one is interested in realizing your vision

No one wants to work for free

Unless you have a good deal of money to put in your project , no one will be interested in you

Look like you do not have a clear idea in mind of what to do , yes game programming is overwhelming, but today is not like 20 years ago, we now have engines, start with unity, learn c#, show you can do something other than putting yourself as the top of team chain and tell the others what to do , rememebr you do not have money to pay people, why someone with a lots of experince more than you shold work on your dream for free ?

@whatdothlife , it's unfortunate that you've gotten some harsh replies. I'm answering your 8 questions in the most honest way I can.

1. Have money, business credentials, contacts, and a business plan.

2. Money can buy that.

3. Hire an existing team that already gets along on a professional level. Building your own team is very hard and takes a long time, involving a lot of learning mistakes along the way.

4. Offer them unicorns that can jump over the moon. Seriously, you can't do what you're trying to do without money.

5. A solid demo and a solid business plan.

6. Weekly check-ins with the team lead via video conference.

7. Hire an existing team that is already well structured.

8. Nobody can. The videos are telling the truth the best way they can. If you don't understand them, learn the language they use.

For more about your question read https://sloperama.com/advice/lesson29.html​ - it's about starting your own company, but the advice in there also applies to what you're trying to do.

Gnollrunner said:

If you spent 7 years and literally have nothing, my guess is this probably isn't for you.

I think that is a bit harsh and possibly incorrect. OP didn't say exactly what their skill level is in the different disciplines. It could be that OP has spent a week learning stuff and then 3 months procrastinating in cycles for 7 years, or it could be that OP has learned CS theory and art fundamentals over that time. If it is the former, then what you say is likely correct. If it is the latter, it's likely that OP could ramp up very quickly by just having the right focus on a single project.

perry_blueberry said:

Gnollrunner said:

If you spent 7 years and literally have nothing, my guess is this probably isn't for you.

I think that is a bit harsh and possibly incorrect. …..

Technically it is by definition 100% correct as written. Certainly my guess could be wrong however. If he proves it wrong, so be it. Maybe he will, I just find it unlikely. As for being harsh, I would say it's direct. I don't think I was rude nor was I trying to be. I see a lot of these posts on various sites. It seems many people have the idea of making a game but a lot of them don't have the skills or drive to do it since it's very hard work. this could very well apply to me, but I keep chugging along because as the OP correctly stated:

A) it's my creative vision and no one will care as much as I do, so I shouldn't bother asking for help.

The fact is people are impressed by working demos not ideas. So barring having enough money to fund it yourself, or having a successful professional track record, you will have to produce something to show others.

@gnollrunner

I didn't mean to say you were rude to OP, just that what you say might be needlessly harsh if it turns out OP actually has gained some skills but hasn't put them into practice. In that case OP is just missing some confidence. If OP hasn't gained any skills over the last 7 years then it might be time to consider pursing something else, as you say.

@WhatDothLife I am in the same boat as you. Feeling like you are just spinning your wheels and not getting anywhere. All I can offer is my advice on the mistakes I have made

How can I get someone to work with me?

Simple answer is ask someone. I'm willing and I know there are some who are as well.

How can I maintain a level of control over my creative vision, while still taking input from those who have their own ideas?

Find only those people that share your values. Much like all relationships, you are going to have to reject those that are not bringing anything to the relationship.

How do I choose the right people? (so everyone gets along on a professional level)

You won't. Nobody is perfect and you will make mistakes. You want to maintain the role as a leader and if I could tell you how, I wouldn't be here.

What incentive can I provide when starting out, when I can't offer to pay them for their time?

Everyone is looking for something, and it doesn't have to be money. Just remember you get what you pay for.

What would prove my project is worthwhile?

Stop trying to prove your worth. Just keep working. Don't stop. Eventually your work will speak for itself.

What's the best way to maintain communication between members of the team?

Depends on the team. Email works for me. Chat rooms are relatively easy to find and there are always message boards. If you want to maintain leadership and creative control, its on you to initiate the communication.

How should this team be structured, and how do I figure that out?

Less democracy and more dictatorship. Counter intuitive yes, but you want people to follow your vision, right? Start with making it easy as possible to see that vision.

Can someone please help me understand how VCS's (like github) work? I've seen a lot of videos, but I can't make sense of what they're saying. No matter what I watch, it still feels like an alien language. I feel this is a necessary tool for starting a team.

It is an alien language. First, you need to have some kind of project. Start with a readme document or any notes you have on a project and WRITE SOMETHING EVERYDAY. The only way you learn VCS is by using them and understanding how you can f* things up with them. The best tool to learning one is to constantly loose your work, mess things up and once the panic settles down, trying to recover your lost work. That is where the learning comes from.

I really hope you stick with it. As far as the 7 years and nothing to show for it, I doubt its true. You may not have a finished product, but I bet you have made mistakes.

I find it odd that so many people are saying source control is difficult. Using Git is orders of magnitude more simple than developing games. You can learn the basics, push; pull; add; commit; stash, in 1 hour. To use more advanced features like: submodules; interactive rebase; squashing; amending; creating pull requests; different remotes, honestly only takes a few more hours to get a grasp of. This is probably the number one reason why I have trouble sticking to gamedev teams, because no one understands Git or is interested in using it properly.

The other thing about teams is that for you to stay with them long term you have to like each other. If there is no incentive like money, the only thing keeping you together over the long term is wanting to have success together. So the best bet would be to find people IRL and create a team with once you get to know them. Doing it over Discord is also possible but then you would need to spend some time in voice chat getting to know people. Also playing games together likely helps with bonding as well as finding a common language and goals to strive for.

Quick answer - Do a game jam. You can look for a team while specifying there's something specific you have in mind you want to try making - and make a vertical slice prototype of the game you have in mind. It'll also give you a taste for what the other questions you have involve.

Gnollrunner said:

If you spent 7 years and literally have nothing, my guess is this probably isn't for you.

People seem to be taking offense to that statement, but honestly, I agree with it.

I've spent even more than seven years, and I also have nothing to show for it. I could have spent that time writing stories, and by now I could have been good enough to sell some books. I could have spent that time drawing comics and would have been quite good at it by now. I could have been making videos, and - well I probably wouldn't be making any money from that but I would at least have something to show.

But instead I spent years of my life learning how to make games and I don't have anything to show for it. Maybe I'll have something done after a couple more years and it will get buried on the Steam Store and I might sell ten copies ever. I could have had that same amount of success five years ago if I just kept making my webcomic.

Video games are a collaborate effort; they take teams of people. The few times you can look at something good that came from just one man it was someone with the passion and motivation of ten people.

Seriously, maybe this isn't for you. Maybe there is something else that you would like better. I can't tell you for sure that there is, but don't discount the possibility.

Don't live your life in regret.

Marscaleb said:

Gnollrunner said:

If you spent 7 years and literally have nothing, my guess is this probably isn't for you.

People seem to be taking offense to that statement, but honestly, I agree with it.

You are referring to me so I'll answer you as well. You don't know OP's situation. I don't know OP's situation. “Having nothing to show” could mean many different things to different people. If in their view OP doesn't think the 7 years have proved worthwhile then of course it's time to quit.

Marscaleb said:

I could have spent that time writing stories, and by now I could have been good enough to sell some books. I could have spent that time drawing comics and would have been quite good at it by now. I could have been making videos, and - well I probably wouldn't be making any money from that but I would at least have something to show.

Video games are a collaborate effort; they take teams of people.

Just want to note as well that creative writing is incredibly hard and competitive, and probably a lot more so than making games. Making videos/films requires a lot more collaboration than gamedev. You have to get together with people in a physical space 12+ hours a day for weeks/months on end. There are tons of decisions to be made and people to keep happy. That's the main reason I decided to stop pursuing filmmaking and instead try and make games. Comic books I have no clue about.

My point here is that spending 7 years of gamedev might lead to nothing. But spending 7 years on another creative pursuit would also likely lead to nothing. That doesn't mean it's not worth pursuing if you have enough interest.

@perry_blueberry More people than you were reacting negatively to that comment.

And everything I said was coming from very personal experience. All these things I mentioned (and more) are things I personally have practiced and developed myself in. (And I said “making videos” not “Filmmaking,” I'll wager you understand the difference.) I very nearly did put my time into those things.

And filmmaking is just as collaborative as making video games. You could make a solo film project just as easily as a solo game project; in both cases they take a diverse range of talent and time. It all comes down to what kind of film you want to make and what kind of game you want to make. I can make a film without any actors. I can make a game without any programming.

You want to create a game? Then create a game! It's that simple. Design a game that's within your reach (both in terms of skills and amount of work), then implement that game. Keep working on it until it's finished or you decide that game development isn't for you.

Forget about collaboration for now. Nobody wants to collaborate with an unproven newbie. Collaborations are far more likely to fall apart than solo projects. A successful collaboration requires an experienced game developer as team leader.

So, my best advise to you if after all this time you still don't know how to do this yourself go find a hobby project or a mod, and learn and get a finished project under your belt. Or go to university and get a related degree your passionate about. Do not under any circumstances waste your time with a game dev degree. Network both locally and globally. On LinkedIn on these forums. And elsewhere.

If you still want to try your hand at leading a team with your level, which will be a great learning experience for you than go for it. Decide on an idea, write a GDD and post here and indiedb.com

I could pass on more lessons, but it would spoil the experience and journey and the ups and downs of leading your own game dev team.

I'll just leave you with this before I answer your questions. Every successful gamedev team needs capable leadership in 3 core load bearing pillars. Art Administration, and Code. Figure out where you fit, what pillar you can provide, and find and inspire people to fill the other roles.

They will work for you for free for passion alone, if and only if you create the proper culture, and build out your own processes and procedures.

Good luck,

1. Yu go on a forum or another site where game devs are and you ask you pitch them and you put on a recruiter hat..
2. Simple and definitive answer, you form a company and own the IP, before that, you need to convince others of your vision and knowledge
3. You learn psychology and you pick the right people, you put yourself out there and show who you are, it will attract the right people,
4. Portfolio, experience connections, Rev share
5. When you look at it and say to your self it's enough. No one can tell you that but you, remember that.
6. Get on a voice chat system I'd recommend Slack, skype or teams, Do Not use discord IMO, it's not made for devs. it's made for communities.
7. Well, you should be leader, and then how you choose your dpt leaders and everyone else is up to you. Structure it however you want, and under no circumstances make an org chart at your level.
8. No idea, I got a tech former co-founder chief engineer for that. But you will need a code repository.