Choosing a Lawyer

I absolutely recommend you hire a lawyer with game industry expertise. There's a list here in this forum. Ask the lawyer what drawbacks there might be to hiring a lawyer in a different country from yours. They're obligated to answer honestly. Red flags: they ask “what does ‘milestone’ mean?”

Hmm… Okay, thank you for your advice! ^_^

Tom Sloper said:
Red flags: they ask “what does ‘milestone’ mean?”

I mean, if that's the only sort of thing to worry about, why do I not just go for a local lawyer…? (There's at least one in my province that apparently deals in video-game law, I believe.)

That is, it sounds like you're saying that most lawyers should be fine, as long as they have some basic understanding of the game-dev process. In which case, it seems to me that a local lawyer would likely be more convenient: no time-zone issues, pricing in local currency, fluency in local law, etc. etc…

Thaumaturge said:
There's at least one in my province that apparently deals in video-game law, I believe.)

Talk to that one for sure.

Thaumaturge said:
it sounds like you're saying that most lawyers should be fine, as long as they have some basic understanding of the game-dev process.

No. I said:

Tom Sloper said:
I absolutely recommend you hire a lawyer with game industry expertise.

ABSOLUTELY, I did not say what you thought it sounded like I'm saying.

Tom Sloper said:
Talk to that one for sure.

Fair enough!

Tom Sloper said:
No. I said:

I mean, the only red-flag that you listed was knowledge of a bit of game-dev terminology. And nothing further was said as to how to choose between lawyers. Thus the implication is that there's little to choose.

[edit] Unless what you're saying is that I should hire a lawyer to tell me how to choose a lawyer…?

Thaumaturge said:
I mean, the only red-flag that you listed was knowledge of a bit of game-dev terminology.

I regret trying to answer your “red-flag” question. Please pretend I didn't respond to it at all. Get a lawyer with expertise in video games. One who's represented developers, who's helped devs resolve conflicts with publishers and litigants.

Tom Sloper said:
I regret trying to answer your “red-flag” question. Please pretend I didn't respond to it at all. Get a lawyer with expertise in video games. One who's represented developers, who's helped devs resolve conflicts with publishers and litigants.

Okay, fair enough!

Hmm… So the thing to do, then, would be to see whether a given lawyer has testimonials (and to follow up on them), or to see if I can dig up who represents other local devs, it seems to me…

Thank you for your advice! ^_^

Thaumaturge said:
it's time to seek out a lawyer, I feel.

Ouch. I don't feel that good about indie game dev anymore.

I don’t know if a support message from an internet rando will make you feel better - but here it is ? I feel you

If you're successful you'll be talking to multiple lawyers. As a hobby grows into a full business, and as the business grows to hire workers and do even more business, you'll end up developing relationships with many different lawyers.

You will be talking to lawyers about standard business issues, talking about corporate law, talking about employment law, talking about tax law, talking about game industry contracts and IP law both in your country and internationally, and you will occasionally need to talk to lawyers about other concerns as well. For those last two topics, game industry contracts and IP law as it relates to games, you will want a lawyer who deals with them extensively.

I would not expect your game industry lawyer to be the same one you talk with about your employment contracts for example. They are different specialties. Your lawyer who is expert on South African employment law will be a different person from your lawyer who is expert on South African and international IP laws. You might end up finding a law firm that has lawyers with both specialties, or you might end up working with multiple specialists in different firms.

At this point of starting out, unless you have specific recommendations for or against a specific firm there isn't much reason for either red flags or green flags. Talk to a few, learn about their prices and services and areas of expertise, learn about where their offices are, if they're likely to be in business in 20 years. Take the info, make a decision grid, rank them based on whatever criteria you feel are important, then ignore it all and pick one at random. ;-)

rampeer said:

Thaumaturge said:
it's time to seek out a lawyer, I feel.

Ouch. I don't feel that good about indie game dev anymore.

I don’t know if a support message from an internet rando will make you feel better - but here it is ? The situation sucks.

Don't assume there's a problem. My assumption (unwarranted) was that there was a contract matter - either an opportunity or a problem. As frob said, there are many times a dev needs a lawyer.

See if they can "talk shop' without charging you for their time.

See if your personalities mesh.

GeneralJist said:
See if they can "talk shop' without charging you for their time.

Any good lawyer will listen to your description of your situation and tell you whether or not they have the experience to help you. And not charge you for that initial exploratory meeting or call.

Thaumaturge said:

Is it important that they be in my country? (To be clear, I'm not in America; I'm in South Africa.) That they be nearby me?

Different countries have different laws. If you're in South Africa, then you'll probably want a lawyer who knows South African law, which is usually but not always a South African lawyer.

If you want to enter into a business relationship with an American company, then some familiarity with American law wouldn't hurt either, but it's probably easier to find a South African lawyer familiar with the relevant American laws than an American lawyer familiar with the relevant South African laws.

rampeer said:
Ouch. I don't feel that good about indie game dev anymore.

Hahah, no, this is standard stuff! Looking at contracts, advice regarding IP rights, that sort of thing!

Tom Sloper said:
My assumption (unwarranted) was that there was a contract matter - either an opportunity or a problem.

There are a few things that I want to discuss with them (i.e. not just one thing), but you have the right basic idea!

frob said:
If you're successful you'll be talking to multiple lawyers. …

A little intimidating! ^^;

But--I also feel that a decent lawyer would likely be able to point me in the right direction should things come up outside of their bailiwick, so finding a decent lawyer who knows about my most immediate concerns seems like a good way to start, I feel.

frob said:
Talk to a few, learn about their prices and services and areas of expertise, learn about where their offices are, if they're likely to be in business in 20 years.

I suppose that part of my uncertainty here is that I really don't feel that I know what to ask, and what to look for--or look out for. This is my first time dealing to a great degree with lawyers (barring a brief experience of dealing with a lawyer regarding a potential book-writing contract), so I feel a bit adrift.

Maybe I'm being anxious over nothing, maybe I'm not--I don't have the experience to determine that with confidence.

For what it's worth, I'm not sure that there are other firms than that one that specialise in video-game law within my province--at least not that I've found. Others that handle “entertainment” or “information technology” law, but not “video games”, specifically. But it may be worth talking to them anyway to check…

[edit]

Update: In further searching, I think that I've found a second firm! (And, at least to go by its website, it does look good!)

[/edit]

frob said:
… if they're likely to be in business in 20 years.

I mean, I have no idea of how to determine that… ^^;

Tom Sloper said:
Any good lawyer will listen to your description of your situation and tell you whether or not they have the experience to help you. And not charge you for that initial exploratory meeting or call.

Yup--this is indeed my impression!

a light breeze said:
If you want to enter into a business relationship with an American company, then some familiarity with American law wouldn't hurt either, but it's probably easier to find a South African lawyer familiar with the relevant American laws than an American lawyer familiar with the relevant South African laws.

This is indeed my thinking. (Well, that and the simple fact that, if a face-to-face meeting is for some reason called for, it's no great hardship to get to them.)

*Phew!\* Thank you all for your advice! ^_^