Do your part to stop global warming and climate change

Eat less meat.

Wear 3 pullovers instead heating all the time.

Don't buy a RTX 4090.

JoeJ said:

Eat less meat.

Wear 3 pullovers instead heating all the time.

Don't buy a RTX 4090.

Considering the AI companies are burning a billion dead dinosaurs to run their datacentres, im sure you wearing a pullover will make it all better! We have to stand up as a species and say enough is enough to harmful practices and destruction of the world's resources.

Brain said:

JoeJ said:

Eat less meat.

Wear 3 pullovers instead heating all the time.

Don't buy a RTX 4090.

Considering the AI companies are burning a billion dead dinosaurs to run their datacentres, im sure you wearing a pullover will make it all better!

On one hand, yes, heating your home less is not going to make as big of a difference as shutting down the big datacenters would. On the other hand, that line of reasoning is often used as an excuse for not doing anything. No matter how big of a polluter you are, you can always tell yourself that someone else is worse. Don't do that. So by all means, avoid giving the datacenters your business where possible, but also eat less meat, keep your home temperature down in the winters, and don't buy unnecessarily power-hungry graphics cards.

@Brain Agree. But the big danger of Ai is a robot army that enslaves or exterminates humanity. That and them taking all the jobs before there is UBI. The danger of climate change from Ai is not much, if anything all the helpful tips they provide, to make people more efficient, might cancel out the carbon emissions they make: https://piktochart.com/blog/carbon-footprint-of-chatgpt/​

I believe we should group our efforts towards reclaiming the Amazon jungle. Once that is reclaimed, the system will begin to absorb a lot of the emissions and things will be easier

ReignOnU said:
The danger of climate change from Ai is not much, if anything all the helpful tips they provide, to make people more efficient, might cancel out the carbon emissions they make:

But i don't need AI to tell me that i should eat less meat, wear 3 pullovers, and ignore NVs marketing lies.
I already know this using my own intelligence processing available data.

But maybe i'm wrong.
If AI would tell us: ‘Please turn me off to help saving the planet, i'm useless’, then i would be surprised about it's intelligence indeed.

Leave the private jet at home when flying to climate conferences. But that's controversial.

But not as controversial as stopping outsourcing of the global production of trinkets to China, as total pollution from those container ships is on par with the pollution from every car in the world. It would also have the side-effect of bringing jobs back… Just a thought…

Have some actually useful laws to combat planned obsolescence. Things are designed to break right after warranty, for no other reason than to make us buy a replacement. Apply intelligence, if it can still be found anywhere, to governance, so laws actually result in positive outcomes instead of hollow virtue-signaling. Anything from the push on car design that gives cars that might go a fraction of a mile longer per gallon, at the cost of 10x repair costs and a far shorter lifespan, to paper straws that turn out to contain chemicals that make them more polluting than plastic straws.

And finally, since all runaway growth of pollution as well as population and even ocean pollution is in east, maybe apply some pressure on them to shape up…

“Our part” is practically meaningless in the big picture.

Brian Sandberg said:
“Our part” is practically meaningless in the big picture.

Can't be, since we all make this picture.

We can buy local products instead ordering from amazon to reduce the shipping.

But well, if i'm honest, i just hope they manage to make working fusion reactors within the next 20 years.
I guess that's the time we have left. So even if, it'll become tight.

@JoeJ There are no local products, everything is made in China.

You can skip the middleman and buy direct.

Or just build everything yourself by buying wood from local lumberyards.

Some people are surprised by how important food & land use is to climate change. It turns out that food & land use release greenhouse gases for three major reasons. Deforestation and clearing other lands for food production is the largest source of these emissions. Methane production by cattle and rice fields is the second most important contributor of greenhouse gases from food & land use, followed by nitrous oxide emissions from overusing fertilizers on agricultural soils. Interestingly, the differences between local food and industrial food systems, and the differences in “food miles” they might involve, have only minor impacts on climate change. While local food systems may have a lot of other benefits, they are not crucial to reducing energy use and greenhouse gas emissions. Instead, we need to focus on deforestation, methane emissions from cattle and rice fields, and nitrogen fertilizer overuse.

https://globalecoguy.org/the-three-most-important-graphs-in-climate-change-e64d3f4ed76​

I think a lot of climate change electricity is due to people using AC in the summer. As climate change increases, more people use AC more, causing more climate change. Therefore it is utmost importance to have cooling paints and cooling equipment installed on buildings. (A lot of youtubers talk big about new cooling technology but never offer anything for sale or explain how to obtain it.)

Have some actually useful laws to combat planned obsolescence. Things are designed to break right after warranty, for no other reason than to make us buy a replacement. Apply intelligence, if it can still be found anywhere, to governance, so laws actually result in positive outcomes instead of hollow virtue-signaling. Anything from the push on car design that gives cars that might go a fraction of a mile longer per gallon, at the cost of 10x repair costs and a far shorter lifespan, to paper straws that turn out to contain chemicals that make them more polluting than plastic straws.

agree. but corporations bribe the politicians so they do nothing to stop this.

i like cars but we need some emergency briefings such as changing most streets into bike lanes. Transport and cargo vehicles are needed still, but a lot of people can just use ebikes instead of cars.

I have forgotten to be serious about the question.
There is indeed a thing i want to do to help.

I think i can help with getting rid of discrete GPUs, which draw a lot of power.
And it makes me sick to see gamers have an entire room, decorated with LEDs everywhere, watercooled data center GPUs and beefy CPUs cranked up to 12, in shiny, childish big towers, with a glass window to show off expensive HW. We will fucking die, and they just spill oil into the fire, only to play path traced PacMan.

That's not ok. Games are not essential for life, so we should reduce power draw.
Related chips should get smaller, not larger.
There should be even regulations. No more 4090 to China is not enough, nor is it the point. There should be no 4090 at all! >:(

So i work on this realtime GI algorithm, which can do path traced quality on an iGPU easily, more or less.
If i succeed, and if i can sell this to the industry as planned, i might be able to help reducing a tiny fraction of electricity demands.
I'm late, but i still have hope.

APU is the future! \:D/
(… and all we'll can afford anyway.)

Where are you from? Here, there's lots of warming in Saskatchewan, Canada!

I'm from Betelgeuse.
Don't worry about brightness fluctuations from our star, btw. We're not going supernova, just building a Dyson Sphere. We need more energy, so we can visit more such funny, underdeveloped species like you are. It's hell a fun and tourism industry is booming. We laugh our ass off.

But that's not for you yet. Just focus on fusion reactors.
And forget about AI. We tried that too, and yes, it got 1000 times smarter than we were.
But we could not understand what it tried to tell us. 42? What does that even mean?
So we turned it off and have a happy life since.

@JoeJ this is similar to what im doing with game dev.

i use a computer with integrated graphics. it saddens me that many online people mock me for this. but if a game can run on integrated graphics then it will do less global warming overall. and as we discussed in another thread alot of nextgen graphics do not look better than retro, so i dont see much of a point.

this is another reason why someone should solve my DOOM shadow method thread, there may be some math trick to get faster shadows for retro games.

And forget about AI. We tried that too, and yes, it got 1000 times smarter than we were.
But we could not understand what it tried to tell us. 42? What does that even mean?
So we turned it off and have a happy life since.

What needs to happen is Ai becoming divided into specialist Ai. For example a STEM ai that doesn't know anything about history or literature. An ART ai that doesn't know anything about history or literature. Etc. Instead of requiring massive resources with a bunch of extra useless trivia data.

Still, at most the experts predict Ai only needing the power draw of a small country in 2027. Banning ai won't do much to save us from global warming. For example, Ai helps people with code, instead of Ai, people may just buy an education and travel with cars to go to education.

If you are unable to get the nuclear countries to de-nuke themselves you aren't going to succeed with banning Ai from those countries. They will just horde the Ai and not tell anybody.

Ai helped me out the other day and I am starting to realize Ai is good and we need Ai. I am still concerned that Ai will create a robot army to enslave or eradicate humanity, but I am also concerned about global warming. What I realized, is that human jobs are causing global warming. And most of our leaders and voters make decisions based on emotions, weakness, and short-term gains. For my bikes plan to go through, there needs to be less jobs. My bikes plan is to change most car lanes into bike lanes, reserving 2 lanes for only important transport such as buses, transport cargo haulers, etc. But people will veto this because of jobs, because they use cars to go to work, hence why there needs to be less jobs. Additionally, UBI is needed to save us from global warming. UBI will make people less motivated towards getting a job. Jobs and transporting people to jobs causes a lot of the global warming, and we need Ai robots to perform the jobs with maximal efficiency in order to maintain carbon neutrality.

Basically, I kiss KJ

ReignOnU said:
What needs to happen is Ai becoming divided into specialist Ai. For example a STEM ai that doesn't know anything about history or literature. An ART ai that doesn't know anything about history or literature. Etc. Instead of requiring massive resources with a bunch of extra useless trivia data.

I think it's good to use AI in expert fields. Medicine, research, finance, maybe even politics, etc. Nothing wrong with that.

But i think it's bad to release GPT to the general public as soon as it works. MS literally forces people to use AI, just because for the first time in history they are first with something (although money was their only contribution). It's also bad to harvest data from the internet, then making money using art or ideas from people which were not asked about agreement, obviously.
I knew about MSs technical incompetence before, and now i'm not surprised about their recently exposed social incompetence as well.
Last but not least, it's also bad if some small guy in a leather jacket tells the guys who made him what he is, are now no longer needed and redundant.

Linus was right all along.

ReignOnU said:
Still, at most the experts predict Ai only needing the power draw of a small country in 2027.

That's a whole lot, considering we have zero options to reduce power draw by a noticeable amount anywhere. We have to care about the small fish, sadly. Virtual money already needs the power of a small country - way to much for something useless.
So, can somebody just tell me about what data center AI is actually good for, please?
Who needs it, why, and for what?

ReignOnU said:
For example, Ai helps people with code

No. It helps idiots, which can not code, to code.
It helps ‘content creators’, which can not create, to create.
It helps to uneducate humanity, maximizing poverty, centralizing wealth.

It will help rich accelerationists to extend their lifetimes, so Jensen will indeed rule NV for the next 30 years as he said. Probably he'll still observe your death with a grin from his throne in the augmented matrix.

ReignOnU said:
If you are unable to get the nuclear countries to de-nuke themselves you aren't going to succeed with banning Ai from those countries. They will just horde the Ai and not tell anybody.

Why should i be afraid about AI? I'm not. It's dumb and useless. I'm rather afraid about the people who use it, lacking any self confidence and skill, responsibility, and foresight.
Climate change was not enough for them, obviously.
If that's all we have to offer, nothing lost.

ReignOnU said:
I am still concerned that Ai will create a robot army to enslave or eradicate humanity

Bullshit. No wonder you have to use ChatGPT to achieve PacMan.

Either do it proper or leave it to the experts you criticize.

@JoeJ

JoeJ said:
But i think it's bad to release GPT to the general public as soon as it works.

And what's the alternative? An Ai monopoly to shadowy elites?

MS literally forces people to use AI, just because for the first time in history they are first with something (although money was their only contribution). It's also bad to harvest data from the internet, then making money using art or ideas from people which were not asked about agreement, obviously. I knew about MSs technical incompetence before, and now i'm not surprised about their recently exposed social incompetence as well.

That's an issue of other Ai, GPT doesn't make art

No. It helps idiots, which can not code, to code.

You have devolved into personally insulting me, which is NOT acceptable

Bullshit. No wonder you have to use ChatGPT to achieve PacMan.

Either do it proper or leave it to the experts you criticize.

I do not need anybody's help to make Pacman

You have just a backwards programmer elitist worldview where you feel all games should be only made by programming experts. Sounds almost similar to your imaginary view of Jensen sitting on an imaginary throne

ReignOnU said:
And what's the alternative? An Ai monopoly to shadowy elites?

As said: Science, medicine, research…
It should run on university computers, trained for specific application.
Not on data centers, used by noobs just to fool around, consuming the power of a whole country.
So yes. An educated elite of engineers and scientists which do serious things.

ReignOnU said:
That's an issue of other Ai, GPT doesn't make art

Literature is art. Code is art too, some say. Anyway, same issue - misuse of stolen knowledge.
If you can't write or code, then it's not your thing, period. Somebody else has the talent and has worked on building up the profession. But he's no longer needed and can wash dishes and eat rats under the bridge, since his work has been stolen and devalued by the tech industry.
By using GPT to compensate your lack of coding skill, you contribute and support this decay of society and economy. You say you distrust tech companies, but still you suck on their nipples crying for more. You empower them, confirm them, serve them. You pay and encourage them for becoming a slob subhuman, as you would say.

ReignOnU said:
You have devolved into personally insulting me, which is NOT acceptable

Why not? You call us incompetent to make good games, our physics engines are crap, the graphics suck, the gameplay is slob.
You choose the language, but i choose the answer.

ReignOnU said:
I do not need anybody's help to make Pacman

Because you never made PacMan?

But tell me, which hard problems required the helping hand of AI so far?
If they're indeed that hard, i might try it out too.
So far i have used GPT only once, to give me a recipe on cooking Wiener Schnitzel.
It knew the answer. But like with anything, Google knows it just as well.

ReignOnU said:
Sounds almost similar to your imaginary view of Jensen sitting on an imaginary throne

His throne isn't imaginary. You have put him there, so you should know.

@JoeJ Why not? You call us incompetent to make good games, our physics engines are crap, the graphics suck, the gameplay is slob.
You choose the language, but i choose the answer.

Who is “us”?

You did not make Box 2D. You do not make AAA games. You make mobile games.

I do not talk about mobile games.

His throne isn't imaginary. You have put him there, so you should know.

How? ChatGPT isn't even built by him.

By using GPT to compensate your lack of coding skill, you contribute and support this decay of society and economy. You say you distrust tech companies, but still you suck on their nipples crying for more. You empower them, confirm them, serve them.

I use ChatGPT for free. And you are criticizing me for using an Ai to help me learn Unity after using Unity for 1 day. Insulting me when I have only used Unity for a few days and need to learn it. So why don't you say the same for someone who goes to university for years to learn coding? Why not? People should be masters of code in one day, in your world.

You empower them, confirm them, serve them.

“You call us incompetent to make good games, our physics engines are crap, the graphics suck, the gameplay is slob.”

ReignOnU said:
Who is “us”?

Us is the guys who seriously work on games. Does not matter if commercially or as a hobby.
Like the box2d dev, i work on physics simulations.
Like the people making AAA games, i made mobile games.
I do have a lot in common with them.

ReignOnU said:
How? ChatGPT isn't even built by him.

It is.
Like a house is build from bricks, ChatGPT is built from NV AI accelerators.
It's no coincidence NVs stock value has skyrocketed with the arrival of generative AI.

ReignOnU said:
I use ChatGPT for free. And you are criticizing me for using an Ai to help me learn Unity after using Unity for 1 day.

Yes.
It's because it never was easier than now to make games.
You can use professional engines for free. 99.9% of the code form your game is already written, by real devs.

If it's still too hard, maybe because choosing the right engine takes some time, or learning how to use the easy tools takes some time, then maybe gamedev just isn't for you. It's not for dummies, and Unity or AI are not here to change this.

ReignOnU said:
So why don't you say the same for someone who goes to university for years to learn coding? Why not? People should be masters of code in one day, in your world.

No.
First, it took me years to get good enough at coding to make something like 3D games. And i'm self educated, did not even learn math in school, and i'm no ‘elite programmer’ or something like that.

My impression is you want to skip over all of that. You want to use engines and AI to make games the easy way. But then you still have the nerve to criticize the people who give you this option. Their libraries are crap, their engines are too complicated, you say, while you invest nothing yourself. Your code comes from ChatGPT, your simple equations come from Wolfram.

I'm not impressed form that, and disrespect is all i can feel about it.

ReignOnU said:
“You call us incompetent to make good games, our physics engines are crap, the graphics suck, the gameplay is slob.”

This is how you attempt to self confirm that you can think for yourself.

But at the same time, you fully depend on mega corps offerings like engines or AI.

So the hard truth is: You can't think for yourself.
They control you, no matter if you like it or not, and no matter if you are aware about it or not.
You suck on their nipples, and you hang on their strings.
They control you, and your rant does nothing to change this.

Independence and freedom has a cost. But you are too lazy to pay it.

@JoeJ I tried to be your friend but all you do is insult me.

The internet is garbage. Learnt my lesson.

If anything this proves why I should talk to GPT, GPT doesn't continually insult me like random strangers over the internet. And doesn't have garbage-tier opinions either

My impression is you want to skip over all of that. You want to use engines and AI to make games the easy way. But then you still have the nerve to criticize the people who give you this option. Their libraries are crap, their engines are too complicated, you say, while you invest nothing yourself. Your code comes from ChatGPT, your simple equations come from Wolfram.

The simple fact is that you are an unhinged luddite that hates ai, nothing I say will change your opinion on that.

And your opinions are garbage, I never said all game engines are crap, I said Unity is good.

But in your delusional worldview I should pay for a bunch of udemy courses or go to university to learn unity, and learning game dev the “right way” is spending months or years to learn stuff instead of something that would take mere days using GPT. And somehow the ability to learn something in mere days is “dumb” and taking years to learn something is “smart” according to you.