Building a game engine

Trying to build a game engine without having built a game first is not going to work.

Trying to build a game engine without a game where people submit effectively random pieces of code via contests is a disaster waiting to happen.

Trying to build a game engine without having built a game first is not going to work.

Trying to build a game engine without a game where people submit effectively random pieces of code via contests is a disaster waiting to happen.

Seconded.

This sounds like a programming nightmare to be honest. The idea itself is just not feasible either, especially since you're stating that you want to compete with industry leading engines. Go have a look at the Unreal 4 techdemo and the video where they walk you through the editor that comes with it, it's just not possible to compete with something like that with your strategy.

The aim are to build a engine where small companies and themes get the tools to develope "blockbuster" games that can compete with the companies that have millions in budget.

Well, that still has not succeeded with open source engines. And there's a reason for that... and I'm afraid this reason is not they lacked the little money this project is going to generate. Supposing it does. But even in the extremely optimistic case it generates a few millions, I'm afraid you would still be on the start line with them.

For further reading: It's time ramp up open source engine development! Those kind of things are incredibly complex.

@langsholt

Why not build a game? You should build a small game using OpenGL or DirectX. Perhaps even buy the OpenGL super Bible 4th or 5th edition or a book about directX 9, 10 or 11. You will soon find out what a daunting task it is to build something like a simple game engine. From there you should start thinking about what an engine like Orgre is and try messing around with that or even Unity or Torque 3D in order to get a feeling about what an engine can help you with.

After the stuff about has been done(or already done by now) you should now have an idea about what an engine is and what it is able to do. From that point you should invest in the books "Game Engine Architecture" by Gregory and Game Engine Design and Implementation by Thorn. Also look for L.spiro on this website, as he is really into making game engines and hava made some great posts about this issue.

This will make you see what the people here on the website is talking about.

The conclusion must be, do not attempt to make an engine before you have made some small games and played around with a few engines already made first.

I hope this helps

Hi
thanks for interesting views.

I understand the complexity of a game engine and maybe not compete with the big guys. On the other hand if we get fundings and experienced people working partly on it, it should be possible?

If this should happen, what sort of game engine would you make? what kind of game (that is popular, and sell or used a lot and will work in many years to come). What about a game engine that makes games in 3d format you can see on cinemas?
Are there possible to design it in a way so user can select/deselect rules and/or add own. For example physics like gravity and other the developer can change.
That the engine have prebuilt 3d modules and other around? What kind of modules can be premade (2d, 3d, game rules, other)
What about a online game engine? Must be some area/niches that is possible to make something. What kind of online games are popular?
What about teaming up with a game developer that has a game type we wanna develope a engine for?
Eventually other.

As I understand we first must decide what we wanna design, then how it can be profitable for all involved parts.
On the side, Personally it had been good to make a game engine that could make games that offered good morality and just not warhunger but that alsowould appeal the broad band of users.

Also good to use the moto:
Nothing is impossible

I don't know how good an engine can be, if it's developed by randomly changing random people.

"Nothing is impossible." Grow me a second head, please.

Trying to build a game engine without having built a game first is not going to work.

Trying to build a game engine without a game where people submit effectively random pieces of code via contests is a disaster waiting to happen.

Is it a disaster if someone design a entire module with described features that we want? Lets say we have 10 modules, that cover different areas? We know what kind of game we want, what to do.

Myself have an idea of a online game with multiple worlds. It reaches from growing crops to starship battles and contact with other civilisations. The key to bind all different games togheter are trade. Starships troopers etc also do need to eat? so by constructing a marketplace and build different games around that one. There would be many game engines developed regarding what user wanna do. I wanna be a starship captain, not a farmer. Then you are involved in that part of the game. So by constructing engines to the different worlds the game can envolve towards what users wants. Point is, if you know what you want you can make it. Commercial succes is harder, since it is hard to know what people want. That lead us to a other thing, how to recognice projects that can be commercial succes? With this I mean over time, just not right there and then.

I don't know how good an engine can be, if it's developed by randomly changing random people.

"Nothing is impossible." Grow me a second head, please.

Even if you have a hardcore team with people that have control over project, debugs and other?

What I want with the project is making it easy for people to create games so they can make a living.
Anyway. lets say I got 1 million usd. What could possible be done?

see it this way. why should they bother using your engine? i dont see any chance that you can compete with Unreal, Frostbite, IDTech and so on.
i mean, they have been in dev for ages! and the best in the industry are alredy working with them.

Why would a company using none of the above engines use yours? they probably got their own, and have a danm god reason for it.

What I want with the project is making it easy for people to create games so they can make a living.
Anyway. lets say I got 1 million usd. What could possible be done?

- 1 million? i dont see that happening.
maybe if you find the 10 genius of all time. yes, but what is the possibility?

And as some one said, "Any thing is possible", so grow me a pair of extra arms.

Anyway
Lets say if we make a tradeportal where people can sell and buy stuff they need. Fuel, food, minerals, and other daily things. Other game developers could hook their online games on to the tradeportal wheter it,s farming, virtual gambling, adventure games, settler and other. The thing is that people could buy and sell thing they produce like in the real world. Also if people wanna cheat they can buy credits and buy the goods, upgrades etc eventually a subscribe gives the user a given set of credits. Anyway there must be developed a standard that every game needs to apply to. of course, users also can earn credits in their games to use in the trade portal. also the tradeportal could be a real internet webpage.

Just an idea and alternative to designing a game engine, this way the developers that wants to be a part of the portal needs to fit the game to our portal.

What do you think about this. It will then be a alternatively way of earning money for game developers.

Anyway
Lets say if we make a tradeportal where people can sell and buy stuff they need. Fuel, food, minerals, and other daily things. Other game developers could hook their online games on to the tradeportal wheter it,s farming, virtual gambling, adventure games, settler and other. The thing is that people could buy and sell thing they produce like in the real world. Also if people wanna cheat they can buy credits and buy the goods, upgrades etc eventually a subscribe gives the user a given set of credits. Anyway there must be developed a standard that every game needs to apply to. of course, users also can earn credits in their games to use in the trade portal. also the tradeportal could be a real internet webpage.

Just an idea and alternative to designing a game engine, this way the developers that wants to be a part of the portal needs to fit the game to our portal.

What do you think about this. It will then be a alternatively way of earning money for game developers.

The point is that it must be possible to create something for example online games need. Something in common that everyone can benefit from, also they can benefit from each others membermass. In final all is about funding and getting funds to their game for further developement and paying the bills. So what do you think about this idea?

Okey, come with your ideas etc.

Projects like this need someone to start them and take "ownership" of them. The project owners need to be strong visionaries, really hard workers, and able to bring people into the project and motivate them to work hard on it. The project owners are the glue and engine which keeps the project going forward when other project members come and go, for whatever reason.

Since this is your project, how will you start it and what will you do/contribute to make it a success? Projects need a burst of momentum to get going. Are you prepared to do 95-100% of the work for the first couple months? Do you have the skill set required to start building this engine? Have you developed a realistic "business plan"? (ie, identified your competitors, identified their strengths and weaknesses, defined your target market, researched your target market, figured out how you're going to get an ROI, etc. What is your sales pitch? Why should someone want to use your engine over any competitors engine?)

If you haven't got a solid plan, then having a million or billion dollars at your disposal to sink into this project would be a lost investment.

The reality is that there are already lots of game engines available for use. The game engines commonly in use today will almost certainly not be the same engines being used 5-10 years from now. In order for a game engine to be relevant in the future, it's got to adapt to the changing hardware and software capabilities and market trends. Some engines will fall out of use, some new ones will rise up out of nowhere, others will persist due to passion and good project and business leadership. Your project could be one of them if you're smart and you work hard.

This forum has a lot of experienced people who've worked on lots of successful projects and have seen lots of failed projects (and more importantly, know why they failed). Don't think of us as nay-sayers, but as people who can steer you around common pitfalls

thanks for your reply.
I am just a visionary and would work as project manager, fund raiser and recruit members. Of course need to find likeminded and experienced that wants to "own" the project with me.

[quote name='langsholt' timestamp='1340284451' post='4951332']
Anyway
Lets say if we make a tradeportal where people can sell and buy stuff they need. Fuel, food, minerals, and other daily things. Other game developers could hook their online games on to the tradeportal wheter it,s farming, virtual gambling, adventure games, settler and other. The thing is that people could buy and sell thing they produce like in the real world. Also if people wanna cheat they can buy credits and buy the goods, upgrades etc eventually a subscribe gives the user a given set of credits. Anyway there must be developed a standard that every game needs to apply to. of course, users also can earn credits in their games to use in the trade portal. also the tradeportal could be a real internet webpage.

Just an idea and alternative to designing a game engine, this way the developers that wants to be a part of the portal needs to fit the game to our portal.

What do you think about this. It will then be a alternatively way of earning money for game developers.

The point is that it must be possible to create something for example online games need. Something in common that everyone can benefit from, also they can benefit from each others membermass. In final all is about funding and getting funds to their game for further developement and paying the bills. So what do you think about this idea?

Okey, come with your ideas etc.
[/quote]

Where is the money? where is the people who wish to work on your project? Do not get me wrong here I am simply just practical here. If you have the money then start hiring and hope for the best, if not then... hope someone shares your vision Good luck.

thanks for your reply.
I am just a visionary and would work as project manager, fund raiser and recruit members. Of course need to find likeminded and experienced that wants to "own" the project with me.

There are a few important things to remember when it comes to starting a commercial project:
* Time = money.
* People who are working for free are investing in your project(They're investing time and time=money), treat them as investors.

If you want people to invest you need to convince them that it is a good idea to invest.
To do this you need to do two things:
1) Get a solid businessplan.
2) Invest (time and/or money) in your own project. (Think about what signals you are sending to potential investors if you don't)

Are you sure you are capable of recruiting?
It's not likely that well known and proven engine coders will want to join you because they are probably already making an engine.
So how can you decide who is good and who is not without coding experience? Fancy demos won't be enough for that.

I believe there is some confusion on game development cost in your original post so I figured I would clear it up. It says that the aim is to build an engine so that the smaller / indie developers are able to compete with larger companies and create blockbusters... but there is a reason it would never do that.

1.) Smaller companies and indies already have access to extremely good (and proven) technology to compete with any large company. The main three options right now would be Unity, UDK, and CryEngine... all of which you are able to download and use for free in some capacity. Also note that all of them are extremely proven technologies with many titles using them.

2.) Consider the middleware license factor. UDK has a ton of built in middleware like Speedtree and Scaleform, Unity has Beast, Umbra, etc. These middleware providers are never going to package their products for free with an open source engine, so either people would have to pay for optional add-ons (meaning a higher cost than the alternative engine choices) or your would just have an inferior product.

3.) The largest cost in game development is actually in asset creation and not engine tech / programming. Sure both sides cost a lot of money but ask anyone in the industry what the ratio of artists to programmers is on titles and you'll see where the majority of money is spent. So even if you were able to build the greatest engine ever made and ink licensing deals with all the good middleware providers it won't be letting small studios create blockbusters like 100+ man studios.

It's unclear where the money is coming from? Your "End product, income" doesn't cover initial funding. Also, if people have to pay to use it, I'm not sure how it would be Open Source.