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Quote:Original post by Vanke No no i am getting it, i get it 100 percent. Your not getting me I do not and will not ever ever ever be able to give both the real world and the virtual world equal weight ever sorry.
And now you're back to the "real world" argument. But here's the deal: Whether you give the real world and the virtual world "equal weight" is not the only part of the puzzle. The other, larger part: Those other people? They aren't virtual people. They live in the real world, the same real world as you. And they are interested in playing a game and receiving enjoyment from it, on mutually agreed-upon terms. This is basic social contract theory. If you don't like it, you are welcome not to play.
Quote:Original post by Vanke [...]I would have deprived you of something that has actual value in the realworl. If I shoot you as a team member in CS then you respawn two minutes later, you don't like it you leave. Can you not see how these two actions are fundamentally different?
Can't you see that time is valuable, and that by ruining the gameplay experience of somebody with limited time, you're wasting something far more valuable than paintballs? Paintballs can be bought for a price, but time isn't for sale. The amount of time any one person has is fixed, and the supply is zero. That makes time infinitely valuable in just about any economic model.
"Walk not the trodden path, for it has borne it's burden." -John, Flying Monk
Quote:Original post by bjle I pretty much agree with Vanke. I really enjoy watching people's reactions when I do things like that in games. TKing is just one of the things to do though. Using retarded/strange (yet possibly effective) strategies in an RTS, grabbing all the weapons and items in UT while never shooting, randomly never killing one certain person but killing everyone else in an FPS, doing some /emote out of the blue on one person every few minutes and pretending not to notice in an MMO, the list goes on.
Some of these might decrease others' fun, some might increase it. In either case, its fun and can be funny as hell [grin]
Yes, because your entertainment is much more important than everybody elses...
You know what it is, I'm not playing this game to entertain you, i'm playing it to entertain myself. When I play a sport in reallife i'm more interested in you having fun becuase well games are more fun when everyone is having fun, video games are different, i can still have fun when other epeople aren't sometimes even more so. Like i've said before i will do everything that is allowed in the game that i find fun, if i find tking fun then that's what I do, if i find playing the game "properly" fun then well that's what I do.
Like i've said before Real world (Meatspace) and the computer (Cyberspace) are two entirely different things, I personally would never steal, would never be rude to someone else in real life
Is that because people can't beat you up in Cyberspace? [wink]
Like i've said before Real world (Meatspace) and the computer (Cyberspace) are two entirely different things, I personally would never steal, would never be rude to someone else in real life
Is that because people can't beat you up in Cyberspace? [wink]
Surprisingly that is one of the reasons why I don't equate cyberspace as equal to meatspace, the reprucssions of your actions are different.
Quote:Original post by Vanke No no i am getting it, i get it 100 percent. Your not getting me I do not and will not ever ever ever be able to give both the real world and the virtual world equal weight ever sorry.
No, you really are not getting it. The video game is part of my real life. I go to work, come home, take care of the baby, have dinner, bath the baby and get him to bed, play a quick hour of AA and/or do some coding. Just like going fishing, or working on my motorcycle, I am planning to derive some form of enjoyment from said activity. That is all part of my *real life* thankyou very much! Participating in a team oriented game is a form of enjoyment for me and part of my day in my real life, so someone deciding to also participate in a game with clear objectives based on teamwork, yet do something completely the opposite to destroy the fun of the other participants, does actually annoy the hell outta me!
Quote:Original post by Vanke [...]I would have deprived you of something that has actual value in the realworl. If I shoot you as a team member in CS then you respawn two minutes later, you don't like it you leave. Can you not see how these two actions are fundamentally different?
Can't you see that time is valuable, and that by ruining the gameplay experience of somebody with limited time, you're wasting something far more valuable than paintballs? Paintballs can be bought for a price, but time isn't for sale. The amount of time any one person has is fixed, and the supply is zero. That makes time infinitely valuable in just about any economic model.
Well that's cool for you but to be honest I just don't care my time is infinitly more valuable to me then your time is and you will say the same to me. I dont' really care about how you spend your time if it's spent wisely or not, that's up to you not me. If I affect how you spend your time that's your problem to fix not mine.
Sorry if i think CS is realistic. To put it in perspective, here are some of the other FPSs Ive played: HL, HL2, Doom3, Unreal, MaxPayne, Quake, Red Faction, Halo. Do you think any of those are more realistic? If not, what the hell games are you thinking of? In cs,
All the guns are based on real guns (no lazer guns or pulse cannons) bullets actually hurt you (no taking 5 rockets to the face and walking it off) you can only carry 2 weapons (no carrying 12 big guns without even slowing down) its people vs people (no fighting aliens or monsters) its actual people vs actual people (no fighting agaist boring computer bots) your playing in 'real world settings' (not battling on the 3rd moon of jupiter) when you die, you cant play for a little while (no respawning right away) you cant heal yourself (no repairing the gunshot wound to your face with a bandaid)
the list goes on. I suppose there is maybe an army game out there that might be more realistic, but im not big on army games. The point is, CS is designed to be realistic, and theyve been working on it an tweaking it and perfecting it for like 8 years. If your gonna laugh at me for thinking it does a good job, then your probably just some jerk on the internet like Vanke. ;)
back on topic, yes I think my time is worth something. And I also paid money for my computer and video card and HL2 and CSS and my internet connection. Is that 'real world' enough for you? I agree if the game allows you to do something (eg shoot your teammates), then you should theoritecally be allowed to do it. But in this case your just ruining the fun of everyone else (which i suppose is what gets you off). We cant stop you from being a prick, but just dont tell yourself its ok because your not actualy ruining anything of value. Because you are.
My suspicion is that you like to shoot your teammates because you dont like the players that actually shoot back.
You know what it is, I'm not playing this game to entertain you, i'm playing it to entertain myself. When I play a sport in reallife i'm more interested in you having fun becuase well games are more fun when everyone is having fun, video games are different, i can still have fun when other epeople aren't sometimes even more so. Like i've said before i will do everything that is allowed in the game that i find fun, if i find tking fun then that's what I do, if i find playing the game "properly" fun then well that's what I do.
So I guess when you are playing hockey or soccer ( or whatever ) you like to score on your own team or injure your fellow teammates because it's funny and entertaining to hear their cries of fustration?
Video games are not different. Like Sneftel said there are real people on the other side of the screen. If you want to TK in solo play, go nuts. But as soon as you start going online and disrespecting your teammates you have no business being there.
