Jerk on the internet

Vanke · 2005-11-18T13:48:12

Quote:Original post by dnsauveQuote:Original post by VankeQuote:Original post by dnsauveSo, everyone should live by your standards? Because you don't think video games are important, and should not be given the same weight as a real game, everyone else is FORCED to agree?No they are not forced to agree, i'm not forcing anyone to do anything, except to i guess accept the fact that there are people who act that way in games, nothing you do or say will ever change that. THere are people who do not and will not ever share your point of view on video games. I guess that's all i'm forcing on people in this discussion.But you are forcing them. You admittedly ruin their enjoyment thereby forcing them to your point of view.They are forced to conform, or to leave. What other choice do they have?Okay so I am forcing them as a consequence of my actions okay I agree with that. But why should I be forced to play the game it was meant to be played. (I hope you guys realize i'm playing a bit of devils advocate here.) Why should i be forced to accept these arbitrary rules they aren't built in to the game. Before you go on and make another comparison to me ruining a game in real life because they don't have rules built in I will say again i view them as different. To me a computer game allows me to do everything i should do and disallows me to do the things i'm not supposed to do.

GDNet Lounge Community

Started by Vanke November 18, 2005 11:43 AM

224 comments, last by Oluseyi 18 years, 6 months ago

Vanke

100

Author

November 18, 2005 02:45 PM

Quote:Original post by Sneftel
Quote:Original post by Vanke
Quote:Original post by Sneftel
Quote:Original post by Vanke
an unethical act in a videogame is different then one in real life.

That is the core of your argument, yet it's one you have provided no support for.

Why do I need to provide support I thought it was fairly obvious that a videogame really has no correlation with real life except for the fact that realife people play them. THat's all morals and ethics they simply don't apply to games if they did we wouldn't be killing people in games.
How many times does the fallacy there need to be explained to you? Seriously, I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

I feel your pain brother.
We seem to be saying the same thing to each other, I don't see videogames and life as two seperate entities rules that apply to one in my mind shouldn't apply to the other. You view it differently to you they are the same, you apply your morals to both equally I don't. I know i'm never going to get you to see my point of view and your not going to see mine. Sorry it's not going to happen i'm not going to wake up and see the light and realize that when i tked in the past I was being a bad person. Sorry it'll never happen.
And you'll never realize that a videogame is inherently different then reallife, you should never view them both the same.

To me viewing them as both equal in that way detracts from realife it makes it less important then videogames. The two should never be equal. Now i'm not saying that videogames are stupid and worthless I don't believe that way. Hell I grew up playing them and will play them the rest of my life. But i will never delude myself into thinking that they are that important to real life.

vNistelrooy

140

November 18, 2005 02:46 PM

Quote:Original post by C J W
I have been playing Counter Strike and Counter Strike: Source for 6 years, I play in online and LAN competetions in and out of my country reguarly and have a heck of a lot of fun doing so(I would just like to say this game has never annoyed me ever and if it were to do so I would quit immediately). Originaly I played on public servers and saw this kind of behaviour sometimes, my thought is that some people enjoy annoying people and love to see the reaction from them. This is what I think Vante is trying to put accross and even though I find it so difficult to understand this kind of thought process you have to accept that he realy does enjoy it. To me that means you have to ask the question why does he enjoy it? I don't have a direct quote handy but he mentioned that some people take the game too seriously and hearing their screams of anger just drives him to do it more. The fact they aren't sitting near him makes it so easy to not feel the guilt as most people would.

The bold bit is the part I can not understand. I know you have tried to justify it but when I say "can not" I don't think any explanation would make me understand it even remotely.

Hey, I've rarely ever felt guilty, and I wouldn't feel guilty just because TKing some people. Sadism is nothing new as well. But this isn't the point, Vante is saying that it is alright to ruin people's enjoyment just because the action is being done in a virtual world.

"C lets you shoot yourself in the foot rather easily. C++ allows you to reuse the bullet!"

Steadtler

220

November 18, 2005 02:47 PM

I'll put it simple.
I believe that TK and griefing is morally wrong, and morally worst than cheating. You said earlier that video games do not require the same level of dedication as a "real" game. Well here is full of people that put a lot of dedication into making games that they want the most people to enjoy, and people that think and act like you are an obstacle to that.

Vanke

100

Author

November 18, 2005 02:47 PM

Quote:Original post by Extrarius
Quote:Original post by Sneftel
[...]I'd agree with that, but I think it's been about three pages since he made a reasoned argument. At this point, he's rehashing stuff that's already been addressed and refuted.
"There is a rule that we do not free a mind once it reaches a certain age. It is dangerous. They have trouble letting go. Their mind turns against them. I've seen it happen." -Morpheus, The Matrix
It seems somehow appropriate.

Quote:Original post by Vanke
[...]you invest time in everything you do.[...]
Yes, and in those other things that investment pays off in some way. It does in video games also, except when somebody else specifically tries to prevent it from doing so. Preventing me from enjoying a video game isn't any different than preventing me from enjoying a sports game, a movie, or any other real world activity because in all of those situations you're causing my time to be wasted.
Basically, you're saying you don't consider video games a decent way to spend time, so you have no problem ruining that time for others. Why should others respect your choices if you don't respect theirs? Why should I not disrupt your time in real life if I consider the internet a better way to spend time? You keep saying you don't mind if others ruin your fun in video games, but you fail to realize that your 'sin'(I hate to use that word but it's the most appropriate one I can think of) is not ruining people's fun in video games but deciding how their time should pay off. The fact that you hold video games in low esteem doesn't give you the right to disrupt others' use of their time, any more than my consideration of certain real-world activities (as you define them) gives me the right to disrupt your use of your time.

No you don't see anything about my beliefs at all I'm not dictating how others should spend their time, I may be disrupting it but that's not my fault, i'm simply playing the game the way I want to play it, you play it the way you want to. I also don't see video games as a waste of time, but comeone you can't honestly think that playing a video game is more important than actually doing something productive.

Does anyone here think videogame playing is a productive way to spend your time?

Sneftel

1,788

November 18, 2005 02:48 PM

I'm not trying to get you to see my point of view. I'm showing you that your point of view is inconsistent with itself.

Alright, answer me this: What is the rule by which you determine whether increasing the enjoyment of others is worth decreasing your own enjoyment (possibly by a smaller amount)?

Vanke

100

Author

November 18, 2005 02:49 PM

Quote:Original post by Steadtler
I'll put it simple.
I believe that TK and griefing is morally wrong, and morally worst than cheating. You said earlier that video games do not require the same level of dedication as a "real" game. Well here is full of people that put a lot of dedication into making games that they want the most people to enjoy, and people that think and act like you are an obstacle to that.

I'm not putting down game makers, hell it's what I do in my spare time as well. I want people to enjoy my games and anything that I make. I'm making a comment on the people that play the games (which I know all of you are) not the people who make them. I'm spending my money on these games to support the game makers, why do i need to care about the game players?

DeadXorAlive

535

November 18, 2005 02:49 PM

Quote:Original post by C J W(..)This is what I think Vante is trying to put accross and even though I find it so difficult to understand this kind of thought process you have to accept that he realy does enjoy it. To me that means you have to ask the question why does he enjoy it? I don't have a direct quote handy but he mentioned that some people take the game too seriously and hearing their screams of anger just drives him to do it more. The fact they aren't sitting near him makes it so easy to not feel the guilt as most people would.

The bold bit is the part I can not understand. I know you have tried to justify it but when I say "can not" I don't think any explanation would make me understand it even remotely.

It's called cognitive dissonance. It idea is that Vanke has sadistic pleasures, but he wants to see himself as a perfectly moral person. Those two don't fit together easily and therefore he needs some stupid thoughts about a virtual world vs a real world: so easy to not feel the guilt.

necreia

793

November 18, 2005 02:50 PM

Quote:Original post by Vanke
I'm spending my money on the game as well, I guess this goes back to the argument, "What makes your wants and needs greater then mine."

Woah... back up a second here.

So you think that spending money to cause someone else displeasure is ok as long as it's equal or greater value?

That's the whole core of the ethics and morality debate that you choose not to give weight to.

It costs THEM money, something with real world value. It is very much like buying a 12 dollar hammer.. smashing a random person's CD, discarding the hammer claming "we're even, see I spent as much as you... hahahahahaha!" -- cuz "What makes your(their) wants and needs greater then mine(yours)."

Edit: wrong word

Undeadlnsanity

233

November 18, 2005 02:50 PM

What a moron.

Sorry to sound offensive but geez, grow up a little.

Rep--.

Rixter

785

November 18, 2005 02:52 PM

Quote:Original post by Vanke
Does anyone here think videogame playing is a productive way to spend your time?

You're right, humans don't need entertainment. From now on it's all work and no play, I'm gonna go cure cancer.

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