Quote:Original post by Vanke
To me a video game and your actions in it carry no weight, in real life they do when I'm interacting with people on the internet like say purchasing items, dealing with confidentional information, giving information(answering noobie questions) those actions are equal to the way I view real life. It's only when it comes to video gaems that i dont' care.

Why do morals and ethics apply to real life? And I don't mean that to be a flippant question. Really, truely, what do you believe has made you to believe in morals and ethics in the real world? Is it nature, nurture, experience, "God", ...?

Enigma

Quote:Original post by DeadXorAlive

Quote:Original post by C J W(..)This is what I think Vante is trying to put accross and even though I find it so difficult to understand this kind of thought process you have to accept that he realy does enjoy it. To me that means you have to ask the question why does he enjoy it? I don't have a direct quote handy but he mentioned that some people take the game too seriously and hearing their screams of anger just drives him to do it more. The fact they aren't sitting near him makes it so easy to not feel the guilt as most people would.

The bold bit is the part I can not understand. I know you have tried to justify it but when I say "can not" I don't think any explanation would make me understand it even remotely.

It's called cognitive dissonance. It idea is that Vanke has sadistic pleasures, but he wants to see himself as a perfectly moral person. Those two don't fit together easily and therefore he needs some stupid thoughts about a virtual world vs a real world: so easy to not feel the guilt.

Why should anyone feel quilty for killing someone in a video game. Have you ever felt guilty for killing anything in a video game, I know of no person that has or at least I know of no person that has exxpressed this to me.

I am a perfectly moral person, though why should i apply my realworld morals to a virtual videogame I have a different set of morals for those.

Quote:Original post by Vanke
I have a different set of morals for those.

Yeah, the NULL set! OOOhhh.

...sorry, back to the discussion.

Quote:Original post by Vanke

Quote:Original post by Sneftel

Quote:Original post by Vanke

Quote:Original post by Sneftel

Quote:Original post by Vanke
an unethical act in a videogame is different then one in real life.

That is the core of your argument, yet it's one you have provided no support for.

Why do I need to provide support I thought it was fairly obvious that a videogame really has no correlation with real life except for the fact that realife people play them. THat's all morals and ethics they simply don't apply to games if they did we wouldn't be killing people in games.

How many times does the fallacy there need to be explained to you? Seriously, I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

I feel your pain brother.
We seem to be saying the same thing to each other, I don't see videogames and life as two seperate entities rules that apply to one in my mind shouldn't apply to the other. You view it differently to you they are the same, you apply your morals to both equally I don't. I know i'm never going to get you to see my point of view and your not going to see mine. Sorry it's not going to happen i'm not going to wake up and see the light and realize that when i tked in the past I was being a bad person. Sorry it'll never happen.
And you'll never realize that a videogame is inherently different then reallife, you should never view them both the same.

To me viewing them as both equal in that way detracts from realife it makes it less important then videogames. The two should never be equal. Now i'm not saying that videogames are stupid and worthless I don't believe that way. Hell I grew up playing them and will play them the rest of my life. But i will never delude myself into thinking that they are that important to real life.

You continue to spew this same bullshit about how you (and no one else) can distinguish between reality and video games, but you have yet to address the point that keeps surfacing: What gives you the right to ruin someone else's leisure time? Because, in essence, that's what video games are.

Nobody here is confusing reality with their online persona. Nobody has said that they take it personally when you kill their game character. Nobody here has tried to equate real life murder with in game kills.

All that people are upset about is that you think you somehow have the right to dictate how people should spend their time by intentionally ruining their online experiences.

Granted, you haven't said that people shouldn't play games. but, you have said they are a waste of time and that you do not feel bad about doing your very best to ruin it for them. In fact, you have stated that you enjoy ruining it for them.

In the end, it's really not about video games at all. It's about your inability to respect other people and how they spend their time.

Quote:Original post by Vanke
Why should anyone feel quilty for killing someone in a video game. Have you ever felt guilty for killing anything in a video game, I know of no person that has or at least I know of no person that has exxpressed this to me.

Personally, when I played Starcraft (and expansion) in single-player for the first time, I really had feelings towards Protoss, their honor and sad feelings when their homeworld got messed up. Same thing happens in movies, etc.

I think no mater what you do (game, work, dinner, etc.), you are not a robot and you have feelings.

But this is an off-topic :)

Vanke, I think you try too hard to defend your opinion. Just watch how many posts you provoked =) As they say in Star Trek: "resistance is futile!". If I was a moderator, I'd close this thread...

Quote:Original post by Vanke
...I am a perfectly moral person, though why should i apply my realworld morals to a virtual videogame I have a different set of morals for those.

It's been said many times but I'll reiterate since you seem to have missed it.

We're not saying you need to apply your morals to videogames. You should be applying them to all social interactions, however. Multiplayer videogaming is one such medium through which you interact socially. We're not saying it's unethical to kill someone's in-game avatar. It's unethical to cause the real people behind that avatar unnecessary frustration and wasted time.

As kind of a counterpoint, I play all games completely opposite. Let's say there's a single player game that gives you choices for being good or evil at every turn? I've actually said to myself "Heck yeah, I'm going to go through this game and be evil!", but when I actually am playing the game, I literally CANNOT choose the major evil options. It's something hard-wired inside that makes me play fair.

I.e. I do not compartmentalize the ethics of any situation, virtual or real.

Vanke, If you can compartmentalize video game ethics and real life ethics, how can you be SURE that you won't start accidentally compartmentalizing the ethics of different situations in REAL LIFE?



The 'victims' of team-killing may be playing a game, but their emotions are *not* isolated to the virtual world. The frustration that a victim feels is REAL, and not virtual. They do not magically forgive or forget the frustration when they leave the game.

People react the exact same way if you decided to run into a store to start yelling obscenities at the customers. You're not "harming" them (by your definition a few pages back), but you ARE pissing them off. And because in a video game, they can't do anything about it, you feel great.



I think I speak for everyone when I say that the voting systems in games to kick people suck. You usually need a majority. Unfortunately, this is usually more than half of the people playing on the server. If you have two teams, the team that DOESN'T have the team-killer ruining their say is thinking "why should we kick him when he just helps us win?" or "I have no idea who that is". That eliminates the possibility for a majority, and the vote fails.



I'm normally an ethical person, but I do have an exception. If someone completely abandons their ethics and victimizes me, I don't have as much of a problem abandoning mine just for that person. Most people are like this.

Quote:bash.org
<[SA]HatfulOfHollow> i'm going to become rich and famous after i invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet

Quote:Original post by templewulf
Do you think an analogy would help here? I think it's been tried with little effect, but I'm going ahead anyway.

Analogies aren't proof. Regardless, that's sort of what I was getting at with my request for him to codify his moral rules: determining what, if anything, makes video games so special that he needs to fundamentally alter his moral stance when he steps within a certain distance of them.